No more “Tribble Projects,” with Miriam Brosseau

Leah Neaderthal0:00

You know, you got to bring a little bit of rock and roll every once in a while. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I've always said that the Jewish nonprofit space needs a little bit

Miriam Brosseau0:11

of rock and roll. I think we've all said that at some point.

Leah Neaderthal0:15

That's just one snippet of the fun I had with my client, Miriam Brosseau, as we talked about doing your best work with your clients, and what Star Trek has to do with building your business. Stay tuned. Welcome to the smart gets paid podcast with me. Leah Neaderthal, I help women land higher paying clients in their B2B, consulting, coaching and service based businesses, but I've never been a salesperson. My background is in corporate marketing, and when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about 1000 times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created the sales approach that I now share with my clients so they can feel more comfortable in the sales process, get more of the right clients and get paid way more for every client contract. So whether your client contracts are $5,000 $100,000 or more, if you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever thought you could, then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to rate this podcast. Review it and share it. Thanks. Hey there. Leah, here. Welcome to this episode of The Smart gets paid podcast. I hope that wherever you are, wherever you're listening to this, that you're having a good week and making some good progress on your business and, of course, taking some time for you. So I am so excited to dive in and share the conversation in today's episode with you, but I first want to send a quick shout out to two very special groups of people. Recently, I was invited to speak for two groups about building profitable consulting businesses and getting new clients, and I had such a blast, I just had to say hi and give you all a shout out. So I was invited by the amazing Jess Campbell to speak at the Make It Happen Conference, which is just for consultants who serve nonprofit clients, and it's designed to help them build their businesses. And as you know from listening to this podcast, I work with a lot of women who serve nonprofit clients, and not only that, I have a ton of experience working with nonprofits as my own clients. When I had my marketing and website design firm, our clients were nonprofits and social enterprises, and when I ran a consultancy called Lean impact, we helped nonprofits and social enterprises implement lean startup methodology in their organizations. And actually, I rarely talk about this, and I don't even think I told Jess when we were talking about the nonprofit space, but for a few years, I ran a Tumblr blog called when you work at a nonprofit, which was like a meme style blog, where nonprofit staffers would submit the

Leah Neaderthal2:56

amusing and just kind of ridiculous things that only happen When you work at a nonprofit, and we'd pair them with these animated GIFs that sort of encapsulate the feeling when that ridiculous thing happened. So that was a really fun project that we worked on at the same time that we were working with nonprofit clients. So I was thrilled to speak at the Make It Happen conference, and I led a session called selling for introverts and then in parentheses, or how to get clients without being salesy. And we had so much fun. So I just want to send a huge shout out to Jess for inviting me to speak and for her incredible audience. And if you were there and you're listening, thank you for being such an awesome group. And then I was also invited by a group of women attorneys to speak about getting clients into their businesses. And that was a blast, because these women, I got to tell you, they have listened to the podcast, they have done their homework, and they were telling me things like things I said in the podcast that I even forgot I put in the podcast. So even though we were talking for the first time, it felt like talking to old friends. And actually, it's really funny, they all listen to the podcast together as a group, and they have a phrase that they use for when I, you know, reframe something, or when I offer a new or different way of thinking about a problem. They have this phrase they use. They say that that person got lead even in the session, one woman had posed a question. I was like, sort of talking through it, and they were like, Oh, you're about to get leahed, which I just think is hilarious, hilarious. So thank you to Janice Nicosia and everyone in the group for inviting me to speak with you and making me feel so welcome. So if you're putting together a conference where the audience is women business owners, or you have a group of women business owners that you're connected to, and you'd like to give your audience or your members a great time where they're going to learn some actionable strategies to get clients, they'll think differently about the things. That might be holding them back, and they'll have fun. Email my team at team at Smart gets paid.com to have me come speak. It'll be fun. All right, let's get into the episode. So I'm always saying to my clients and to the women I'm talking to that when you're trying to get higher paying clients into your business, everything is connected, as just a few examples of that. You know, you can't talk about how to get more of the right clients without looking at whether you're signaling the clients that you want. And you can't talk about getting paid for your value, not your time, without looking about how you're communicating your value in your messaging or your content and in conversations. And you can't talk about helping clients say yes and guiding them through the sales process without looking at how you're writing emails and conducting sales conversations. So it's really hard, I mean, basically impossible, to like spot fix one area, right? Because it's all connected. And a while back in episode 16, I spoke with a woman who her situation. And that conversation really illustrated how connected everything was, because we talked about so many issues just in that one conversation. So we talked about, how does she get more of the work she loves when every project was custom and she was making it up every time we talked about, how does she get more of the clients she really enjoyed working with when she was getting referrals, but the referrals were a little sporadic, and since people were coming to her because they knew her, how did she bring on team members to take on some of the work? It was a really rich episode, and I actually called it too many sales challenges to count. You can see it. It's episode 16, and I called it that not because she had so many issues, but because the issues are so interconnected. And actually, if you haven't listened to that episode yet, you may want to check it out. So fast forward, and she's in my academy program, and she's doing just amazing in growing her business, in getting the clients that she wants. And then she posted this in our wins channel, in our Slack community. She said, signed an option, three, high value, lots of implications for translating the work from this project into others. Love. That's like capital L, O, v, e, love, love the person I'm going to be working with race track proposals for the win. Oh, and by the way, racetrack is a technique we use to increase the value to the client and help the client get better results without you getting overworked. So she goes on. And because I'm bringing in the right work and charging more appropriately, I'm building out my team to take on the stuff I don't need to be doing and which could benefit from a different perspective and talents. Anyway, it feels good. So that was her post, and when I saw that, I was so excited, because it was a complete 180 from what she was struggling with before. You know, she's getting more of the work she loves working with the clients she loves. She's using our technique to bring more value to her clients, she's able to bring on team members, and she's charging and getting paid at a level that she and the client feel really good about. So I invited her to come on the podcast and share with you how she did it, and because she's just an incredible human being who wants to give back to other women who are building their businesses, she's also pulling back the veil of anonymity from Episode 16, and she is standing up and showing up as herself. So I'm thrilled to introduce you to Miriam Brousseau in today's episode, Miriam works with Jewish nonprofits to help them develop digital strategies and irresistible programs that engage and build their communities, although you're going to hear her talk about her work a lot more eloquently than I can share here, she's also just a joy to chat with and to work with, and an inspiration to so many people in her world. So I'm so excited to share my conversation with Miriam Brousseau, and afterwards, I'll come back with a lesson that you can apply to your business, and then hopefully someday soon, you'll partner with us to help you build your consulting business, and you'll come back on the podcast and share your story. Enjoy.

Leah Neaderthal9:10

Do you have an actual sales process? I'm talking about not a general sense of what you should be doing, but a real process where you know exactly what step comes next, who to follow up with and when, and you can see at a glance where every potential client stands, if the answer is no, or if yours feels clunky or you're reinventing the wheel every single time I made something for you, it's called roadmap to clients. It's a free 20 minute video course, and in it you'll map out your customized sales process step by step, from the very first contact with a potential client all the way to a signed proposal. It's the same foundational process we use with every Academy member, and it's completely free. Go to smart gets paid.com/roadmap to get started, you always look like such a rock star with your like awesome guitar. Are in the background, and the hair helps.

Miriam Brosseau10:04

Yeah, you know, I You got to bring a little bit of rock and

Leah Neaderthal10:07

roll every once in a while. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I've always said that the Jewish nonprofit space needs a little bit of rock and roll right now.

Miriam Brosseau10:15

I think we've all said that at some point.

Leah Neaderthal10:18

Miriam, I'm so excited to have you back. Thank you so much for joining me. Yeah, it's such a pleasure. We were just talking, you know, before we turned on the recording, about how I've been seeing all these things that you've been posting about your wins, and thinking back to our earlier conversations around the some of the struggles that you were having as a coach, personally, you know, to sort of see your progress has been so rewarding, but I know it's also been super rewarding for you to be in it, doing it, and seeing some of the results.

Miriam Brosseau10:44

Yeah, when I think about the trajectory of my business and where I've come from, and the role that your coaching and these programs have played in my work, like there's a very clear shift, right? I initially became a consultant accidentally. It wasn't entirely my choice. I just sort of found myself in that space and the, you know, the rug had kind of been pulled out from underneath me at a previous position, and that didn't feel good, and it was really hard. And I eventually ended up in, you know, how in in life, you have, just like rebound relationships, you get out of something and you have your rebound No,

Leah Neaderthal11:21

definitely not. No. That's never

Miriam Brosseau11:23

totally unfamiliar. So we also, I think, take rebound jobs. And so I had, I was in my rebound job for a while, which was like, not good and not a good fit. And so after sort of accidentally becoming a consultant, taking this rebound relationship job, and then choosing to get out of that, that was the first shift like that felt very different. To be able to just say for myself, this is what I want. I'm ready to start my own business, and I know what kind of what kind of leader I want to be and what kind of environment I don't want to be in. I'd have a lot of models of how not to do it, and so that. So that felt really good. And I was lucky at that point to be able to walk out of that position and into a subcontracting position with this other woman who has been a huge force in my life as a friend, as a colleague, as a mentor, and so she kind of helped usher me out of that space and into this one. And that was the first major shift. And after that. I mean, we know I talked about this a little bit in our previous conversation, I've been, I've been working for a while, and I think we all sort of know that in those first 18 months or so of running your own business, you just, you take all the things, right? You do all the work. And I got a lot of what I now refer to as

Leah Neaderthal12:36

triple projects. Wait, remind me what the triple projects are.

Miriam Brosseau12:40

So any fan of the Star Trek franchise will be familiar with the episode from the original series. The trouble with Tribbles, where these adorable little fluffy aliens wind up on the ship and everyone falls in love with them because they're cute and sweet and fuzzy. But it turns out, Tribbles are born pregnant, and they end up just like over, running the entire ship. That's the premise.

Leah Neaderthal13:07

I just that is the most interesting way I've ever heard scope creep described. So, so our ins, but it's more than but it's more than scope creep, right? It's like,

Miriam Brosseau13:17

more than scope creep. It's like, Here, here's a project that you that you look at and you think, Oh, I can handle this. This is small and adorable and like, it feels good to be around it, but, but you, but you realize that it's born pregnant, and it's taking over your ship, and it's that, it's the scope creep, and it's the saying yes to everything, and not putting up your own boundaries. And then eventually it just takes over, and you feel terrible about it, and you end up, you know, sort of, you know, you don't appreciate the triple or the person who brought it on the ship anymore. And I won't extend the metaphor too far, but, but I was taking a lot of triple projects, and part of what I've gotten to, you know, at this point in my business, I can recognize a triple project when it

Leah Neaderthal13:57

shows up. How do you I think, I think folks would be really interested to hear because, you know, a lot of women get themselves into this position. Into this position where they have these triple projects, right, yeah. So what are the signs to you now of a triple project?

Miriam Brosseau14:11

Yeah, I think a big part of it is just the anxiety level of the client. Is part of part of it is the the person coming to you and feeling as though this specific, very tactical thing needs to be done now, and it typically, I think it's the way that they present themselves, it's the it's the assumptions that you will be able to hit the ground running on implementation. This is something that is that's urgent, that's tactical, that has a lot of anxiety carried with it. And I think pausing in that moment and saying, What is the best possible outcome for this project, and if it's just it's done, then that seems to be a pretty clear signal, whereas with with some of the more creative, strategic projects that I prefer, and I think a lot of people that. You work with, prefer if the best possible outcome is not just that it's done, but that we've reached this new level. We've developed this partnership. We've moved something in the business, then it's then it's out of triple project territory and into like, Oh, this is, this is a real, meaningful, strategic partnership. This is a place where I can have an impact on your business, and I can bring the best version of myself to this work.

Leah Neaderthal15:23

Yeah, that's so important. Because, especially since a lot of women, especially early, because, you know, we're still talking about the first 18 months of your business, right? Where a lot of people, these are the projects that come their way first, and a lot of people look at it with, like, you know, happy goggles, right? Like, this very tactical thing will turn into something bigger, right? It will turn into a project where I get to be seen as a strategic partner, or I will, you know, be valued in this way, or what have you. But it's very hard. I think we talked about this before, like, it's very hard to go in that direction. It's almost impossible when you start out in this tactical place,

Miriam Brosseau16:01

yeah, and that's a lot of what I've taken away from coaching with you and from the programs. It's just that to move from, it's much easier to move from strategy to tactics and implementation, which is the direction that it should be going anyway, right? But I think the the layer of that, that that we talk a lot about, is just this idea of coming in as a peer, right? And I think triple projects happen when you're coming in, in that one down position, right? You're already sort of in that, in that place, and it's, it is, it is difficult to really lift yourself up out of that absolutely.

Leah Neaderthal16:33

Maybe you're in a one down position because you need the work, right? Or maybe you're in you're early in your business, so you feel like you need to sort of put in the time, or you have to take the crap work right to sort of earn the right to charge more all of that stuff. So there are a lot of reasons, but in my belief is that it's never too soon to see yourself as a peer and take on the work that you that you really want. So you touched on you had been taking on these triple projects, and what else was happening in your business?

Miriam Brosseau17:02

I think that I had a lot of sort of residual habits from what I how I learned how to work from previous positions, and this idea that there there was maybe a right way to do it, or that I needed to be able to check off these different boxes of how I'd seen different kinds of projects run in my in my previous positions, and I think I started checking some of those assumptions and realizing that this is my damn business, that it's my opportunity to kind of name that process and do the work the way that I wanted to do it, that I didn't necessarily need to be beholden to any of those, you know, templates or preconceived notions, or the way that it had been set up and run before. And I think, I think through the process of working with you, and like meeting with this amazing network of women that you've accumulated, it's just, it's constantly coming back to that and saying, is this checking those assumptions, right? Is this something that is just implicit that I've sort of carried with me from all of these collected experiences, or this is, or is this the approach to this particular project that I really genuinely think is going to be effective and work for me and work for the client? And so, you know, it's a process, and you kind of shift a little bit at a time through each through each project and build in that good reflective practice to be able to get better. But I think it was a process of just like becoming the kind of leader and the kind of partner and business owner that I wanted to be, yeah,

Leah Neaderthal18:35

absolutely can. Is there any one that comes to mind as you're thinking of rewriting some old habits.

Miriam Brosseau18:43

Oh, it would be so lovely just to have an example on the tip of my tongue. I feel like it's become so ingrained into the culture of the way that I work, that I'm doing these little checks along the way that I'm not even sure I could name one. Like it's just the it's that bigger picture perspective. It's the way that I think about and approach clients. I think there's a that that aspect of approaching clients as a partner has been such a huge important mindset shift that it just had this massive trickle down effect into all of the little ways that I, you know, email my clients, or the way that I set meetings, or the way that I think about who I need to bring into my team and the extent to which they're interacting with me versus interacting with the client, and how I'm sort of facilitating all of those interactions. I think there was more of a I think in previous positions, there was more of a guardedness of like. We need to put this face on for the client, right? We need to present ourselves in this in this way, of like, like, of course, we know the right things. Of course we can do no wrong. As opposed to having that more partnership, collaborative stance of we're in this together. I'm going to bring my expertise, you're going to bring yours, and together, we are unstoppable. So it just, it's, it's come through in so many. Little ways that it's just, you know, gotten ingrained into the culture of the way I work.

Leah Neaderthal20:06

Yeah, I love that to have something that is that is sunk in so much that you don't even know what it was like before, or what it was, you know, how you're using, right, happily forgotten. I think that's great. I think that's great. But you're right. It is around, you know, a lot of it, of like, rewriting some of the habits we talk a lot you guys, I mean, you guys know that I'm, like, a total personal development junkie. I'm like, why are we the way we are, right? And so bringing that into the sales conversation, it's like, what experiences do we have in corporate that we are automatically continuing, or what things did we learn growing up right there that are sort of influencing the way that we're doing things. So it's a lot of like, stop and let's shine a light on it, then we can decide how we're going to move forward.

Miriam Brosseau20:55

Yeah, yeah, taking the time to pause and reflect and assess and be more intentional through not only a process of how you approach your business, but also to be in a, you know, community of these other badass women who are having the same thoughts and kind of cheer each other on along the way, makes a huge difference.

Leah Neaderthal21:13

Absolutely. So how did you I'm just curious, how did you know that you had reached a point where you needed to do something different, because that first 18 months where you're getting these projects and you're getting work, and so, like, all signs would tell you think this is good, right? You know, I talked to a lot of women who are like, Well, I'm getting work, so I don't need help, right? Which is, like, a really easy thought process to fall into. So what's the what was the moment or what caused you to say? All right, I need to figure out a better way to do this.

Miriam Brosseau21:47

I knew all along that I wanted to build a sustainable business, that I wanted to have a team that was working with me, and it would have to start with me figuring out my own stuff. And so I think I was, I had some level of awareness along the way that, you know, as I took on these projects, I am like, this is this is not working. I'm gonna have to figure out, like, how I, how I approach these, these different things, so that I can better name my process, be able to, like, bring people in to support me to, you know, to bring the these projects to life. But honestly, if the way that you're phrasing the question makes me realize that, you know, I was taking out all of these projects and had all of these disparate things, and some of them were very triple like, and some of them were very much like, this is something I would really like to do more of. So part of it was just noticing this is a place where I'm really shining. This is the place where I'd like to do more of this kind of work with this kind of client. And kind of naming the qualities of those projects was a first step, but also it was and I brought this up on our last conversation. I had a huge health thing to deal with, with my with my son, and vote was at a point about a year and a half ago where I had to pump the brakes hard, and I was down to I had one client. It was, I know it was subcontracting. I was working maybe 10 hours a week, and my husband and I were both like full time, all in for a good four or five months dealing with this, with this issue, with my child, who is doing great now. He's thriving. It's wonderful, but And thank God we were in a position where we could make that heart stop and do what we needed to do to go all in on our family. A lot of families don't get that opportunity. And so I think part of, part of the impetus for signing on with you, for all of the things that I've been doing since then, is we came out of that, and I had to build a business. I'm the breadwinner for our family, and I needed to come out with more with more focus and and to be able to build a sustainable business and do the work that I've that I'm feel like I'm called to do, and can make the biggest contribution to the world in but also just to support my family. And so there was, there was a little bit of just like that was a kick in the pants to make it happen. So it was, it was a it went from really pumping the brakes to really hitting the gas in terms of getting all of the things together to make this a viable operation.

Leah Neaderthal24:14

Yeah. So going from those projects that exploded to or and maybe weren't the right ones to the projects that could get you paid more, and you really, you know, could shine and be a strategic partner. I mean, there were some, some real, very important reasons to do this, and I'm so glad your son is doing well,

Miriam Brosseau24:35

yeah, yeah.

Leah Neaderthal24:36

Thanks. Well, so what do you feel like the biggest changes were that you made, either intentionally or unintentionally. Where can you see the biggest differences?

Miriam Brosseau24:50

Confidence is a huge one. I think that anybody, anybody like in my orbit, who sees what I'm doing now, is not surprised by what I'm doing, but it's like. Right? It feels like a natural fit, I think. But figuring that out for myself that like, this is actually, yes, Miriam, this is actually the thing that you do in the place where you have the most value was, what was the process like? It did take me a while to just sort of name that. And one big thing was getting rid of the fear of that scarcity mindset, right? Of of going in and saying, like, look, I work with Jewish nonprofits. That's the place where I have the most familiarity, that's my network, that's my background, that's my community, that's the place where I can be the most useful. But naming that was like, like took a little bit and and part of it was just the, you know, getting rid of that scarcity mindset of like, if I sharpen my focus, if I don't, you know, work with these other organizations, or don't say that I work with these other organizations, then I'm losing out somehow. And as with everyone that you've talked to in these conversations, the opposite is always true. The sharper you go, like, the sharper the focus and the more easily that your potential clients can see themselves in the things that you offer and in the way that you talk about yourself. And like, it becomes this virtuous cycle, right? I put that messaging out, and they come in, and the networks kind of build, and the conversations grow, and it builds on itself much more easily than if you're just sort of like, Oh yes, I can do, I can do whatever you like for whoever you are.

Leah Neaderthal26:25

I can do all the things for, you know, all the people, or for I can do all the marketing, or all the whatever it's like, yeah, it's, it makes it so much harder. I mean, you had this idea of who you wanted to work with, but it was just a matter of being able to name that so many people are a few steps earlier than you, where they don't quite know, but they feel the effects of that, which is, it's hard to message your business in a in a really compelling way. It's hard to craft a painkiller statement, right? There are all these sort of downstream effects. But as you've heard, and we've talked about a billion times in in our stuff, you know, once you can name that. There are so many benefits, not the least of which is, yeah, you know, you get you talked about the network, right? That the network builds, and people start to sort of sell on

Miriam Brosseau27:12

your behalf, yeah? And if you don't name it, they'll name it for

Leah Neaderthal27:19

you. That's like,

Miriam Brosseau27:21

yeah, if you start taking, if you're taking the work from anyone, then the work that those triple projects that you take that aren't necessarily those bigger, meaty, strategic, exciting, collaborative, creative, insightful kinds of things, but are those, you know, little on the ground implementation, things that just need to get done by anyone, then you will then be seen as the person who does whatever needs to get done for whoever it is, and that that will also build on itself. So if you're not naming it on your own behalf, then it's not that you're not named. It's just you're not owning it

Leah Neaderthal27:54

totally well. And I think that's we talked about it that in our previous conversation, how people had been coming to you because they knew that you were smart, and they knew that you can do great work and that you had great ideas, and you know, they may have, might have worked with you in the past, or just knew that you were like, good. They're like, go talk to Miriam. She'll figure it out, right? And that that's one way to get referrals right. Referrals are awesome, but you want the right referrals. You don't want to be seen as somebody who just will do any all the things, right, or who can do anything that you throw at them, because you will, your value will be that you could just do the things, and you, you know, you will find yourself doing a lot of little things.

Miriam Brosseau28:34

Yeah, yeah, it's true. So that was a big shift. I mean, just being able to name that focus and and put that out in the world confidently. And the other side of that is, and this is something that I struggled with in our previous conversation. Was that okay? Well, then you know, what do I do? Am I only working with those people? Do I need to be dogmatic about this? And like, the answer is, no. I mean, part of what came out of that confidence side is, just like, look, this is my business, and I get to do what I want with it. And yes, the vast majority of my clients are, you know, Jewish organizations that are working in education and leadership, and like a particular slice of the community. But I have a couple of other projects that don't fit into that rubric at all, and I went into them with eyes wide open, and they are and they still speak to my my mission, my values, my ideals, my skill set, and I love the partners that I'm working with, and I know exactly why I'm in those projects. It's not because I, you know, needed to take the projects to hit my revenue goals, or I needed to take the project because I was worried there was nothing else in my pipeline. It's because this is something that was really exciting and I wanted to do it, and it'll have implications for the work that I do with other clients moving forward. And so I can, I can take those projects on confidently, with eyes open, knowing that they're outside of that stated wheelhouse that. My, you know, LinkedIn statement, and feel like and feel good

Leah Neaderthal30:02

about that, yeah, yeah, you're still in charge, right? You are still in charge. If people know that you can provide this tremendous value for somebody else, then they're going to want that same value for themselves. But if you don't put out that you can provide the same value and show up around value, right? In your painkiller statement, or your LinkedIn or wherever, anybody will come to you for the tactics, right? So, all right. So the work that you're doing now, this projects that you you're taking on, tell me about those.

Miriam Brosseau30:35

Yeah. So I am working with Jewish nonprofits to help them turn community building instincts into effective digital strategies and irresistible programs. The area of my work is at that intersection of communications and programming. I'm trying to help organizations not only connect people to the mission, but help them connect their people to one another, right? For all of the reasons that we just talked about, when it comes to building your business, right? You want to build out the entire network, because then you get that multiplying effect. So I want to do that for organizations that are in the business of building community. And so sometimes that strategy development, sometimes that that involves a little bit of coaching and training, and then the corollary to that is developing programs with that same kind of ethos, right? That are about connecting to not just the mission, but people, to connecting people to one another, and making sure that that layer of communications for community building is present in all of that. So I tend to work with a little bit more legacy institutions who have really good infrastructure and really great people who are motivated to do all this good stuff in this wacky digital age, and just need a little extra insight and support to bring out their creativity, to bring out that strategy, and to to codify that so they can build the Jewish communities that they imagine, right and and help people find help people find meaning and find their place, And in a time and place in the world where we're all super hungry for that,

Leah Neaderthal32:05

yeah, oh, you're so right. Yes, well, this is big work, right? What does it feel like, if you have to sort of compare back to the projects you were taking on before, when you come on and in this way and work with these clients in this way, what does it feel like? It feels hopeful.

Miriam Brosseau32:23

I mean, I think it's the when you compare it to like the little fiddly things, which are more about just execution and making the thing happen in the way that the client thinks it needs to happen, and the time that they think it needs to happen, that's, that's, it's stressful and it's hard, and it never, you don't really feel the alignment always, between the work that's happening on the ground and the bigger vision, mission, strategy, values, and it's good thing. I'm using my hands a lot because audio mediums are great for

Leah Neaderthal32:57

a note for the audience. She's using her crayons quite a bit. Awesome.

Miriam Brosseau33:00

Yes. Ball gown I have, you know, like, where I just we're

Leah Neaderthal33:07

both dressed in formal wear.

Miriam Brosseau33:09

Always, always. But that kind of work is, it's there are people who really thrive in that environment. I am not one of them working at this level with, you know, and feeling like I'm bringing a unique perspective and mindset and instead of values and skills to the table, feels very, very hopeful, and I think is giving more lasting value to the organization, and feels like the right place for for me and my team to be. Yeah, I

Leah Neaderthal33:36

love it. It's awesome. And isn't that what we all want? Right to just be seen and treated as, as an expert who can affect change, right?

Miriam Brosseau33:46

Yeah, yeah. And I think, and part of that is also recognizing that, like, look, I'm, we're all in the business of having that bigger sort of longer tail of change, like we want to have those reverberating effects and impacts and all of that. But I'm I am well aware that the biggest impact that I'm going to be able to have as a as a business owner, as a consultant, is directly on my clients, on those people, and giving them that sense of hope and possibility and helping them push that out to their people. And also the the impact that I have on my team, on the people I subcontract, on everybody I work with, like knowing that I can feel confident going into projects and and bringing that perspective to them so that they can bring it out to the next level, and just naming that, like, that's that's where my biggest impact is going to be. And like, being cool with that is also really grounding, I think, yeah,

Leah Neaderthal34:43

well, so what do you feel like are the what's the biggest win that you've seen? And then I want to know the smallest win. Because in the academy, we, and actually my team and I have been talking about what we've been seeing, that there are big wins we see. But then. And they're also small wins that are really big wins. Can you share what's what's been the biggest win you've seen and the smallest win?

Miriam Brosseau35:07

That's such a good question. I think the biggest win is actually sense of perspective. I think that there's, there's something about just naming where I am in the in my business's maturity, feeling good about the steps that I'm taking to not only do good work on behalf of my clients, but also work on the business, right? So this, I know that based on where I am, I'm, you know, in my fourth year and and you know, that's with a six, a good six month gap, I'm in my fourth year of my business, and I have invested in the in these these programs in order to help me do better, I've started building out my team. I have a virtual assistant and three other regular team members who are coming in on different projects, and I'm intentionally building out the the culture of that team and making sure that we are we're representative of the kind of work that we want to help our clients do. And I'm and I'm only able to do all of that work on the business because of everything that I've done with you, and because of the the mindset shift and the network and the the skills and tools and all of these things kind of wrapping up and pulling together. So I think just like that, that that perspective and the confidence is the is the biggest win overall. And there are no small wins. I think they're all big ones like I think along the way, there have been, there have been very specific moments where I could say, oh, I'm pricing this appropriately, right. I'm putting out this, this proposal, and I'm not negotiating with myself from the beginning, I'm naming what this is actually going to be, what value this is going to bring to my clients and and pricing it in a way that I know that I can deliver that work and feel good about it and not feel gross at the end of the day, like that, like every time I send out a proposal, I feel like that's that's a win when I sort of when I continue to name next steps for my client and lead them and make it easy and clear for them to take the next step so that we can partner up and do all this good work together like that's a every day there's a little win like that.

Leah Neaderthal37:15

Oh, I love that. You're right. There are See, I know there are no small wins, but I think our inclination, yeah, I think our inclination is to minimize some of the wins that don't feel like, you know, capital W wins, like I signed a new client today. Yeah, right. There are those wins, of course, always right, but like, I think it's, I love your perspective of like, I have a small win every day. And I would, I would love to celebrate even the daily wins where you didn't do something you might have done before. You know, where you just approach something in a different way, or stood your ground and your value, or led the client. I mean, those are just as important, because as as you and I know, I mean, the sales process is a getting a client is the result of doing a lot of things right, and you know, so let's celebrate it at every step right. I love that. So if you could go back to the beginning of your business and tell your self four years ago, your four years ago self something, what would it be? I would

Miriam Brosseau38:21

tell her to trust the process and trust herself. I would sort of cheer her on and let her know that, so we're talking about yourself in the third person, I would tell myself that I was making the right call. I mean, I think I spent a lot of my career assuming that my biggest role would be as somebody's number two right to bring somebody else's vision to life, which I kind of do now as a consultant like that's that's certainly a lot of our role is to take, you know, to help our clients make the make the biggest impact and do the best on behalf of their organizations and businesses. But I think just, just like owning that, being the captain of the ship, right? Going back to my Star Trek metaphors, like, that's, that's the right that's the right move, and you're never going to feel quite ready, but it's going to, it'll get easier, and it's, that's a lot of fun. I think part of the challenge I was facing was it sort of it felt lonely at the beginning, which is a very common entrepreneurial kind of thing, you sort of strike out on your own and and you have to consciously, kind of develop your network of people who get you and appreciate you and are going to be cheering you on, and are going to be, you know, gently letting You know when you're going down the wrong path, or maybe need to ask different questions, and so I think I have felt a better sense of support and collaboration and and connectedness to the people around me as a as an individual. Business Owner than I ever did inside of any single organization, because I can reach into all of these different places and connect with the people whose values most align and who are who challenge and excite me the most, and and I'm able to kind of transfer and translate that knowledge across all kinds of different systems. And it's so exciting. And so I think I would, this is such a long winded answer, I would tell Miriam of you know, four years ago, like, just like, be brave, go for it. I love that. Well, I want

Leah Neaderthal40:31

to, I have to congratulate you, because you have really, like, this inflection point that you hit that everybody hits right at, like, 18 months, two years you've gotten through it. I mean, that's a really exciting thing. Live to tell the tale. Well, also, you got through it, also, while having this other major roadblock in your life, right? I think it's really exciting. You really have gone through this inflection point and, like, with flying colors.

Miriam Brosseau40:57

And now I'm at this point right where I have a I have a like, this is working. I'm doing it, you know. And it's, it's, it's, in large part because of working with you and and the programs that you offered in the network that I've been introduced to through all of the, you know, fabulous women. And I'm just, it's, it's awesome.

Leah Neaderthal41:19

Thank you so much for sharing that that really that means a lot to me. Thank you for thank you for being a part of it, and thank you for giving of yourself as well, because you're such an incredible resource now to everybody who's coming in. So I think that's awesome, and it's so awesome to watch. So if there are other women who are running consulting businesses who are at that point, right that like 18 month to two year point, what would you tell them? What advice would you give them?

Miriam Brosseau41:50

Yeah, well, first of all, I would say that I've been enormously privileged and grateful to be able to make it to this point and have the support that I had. I think that for and I feel a really profound sense of obligation to kind of lift as I climb right as they say. So I try, at this point to be generous with the knowledge that I have to be, to be open to conversations and support wherever it's, wherever it's useful. For folks in similar fields, I think that for for those, for those women who are at that point of realization where it's like the corporate world or the organizational world isn't working for them anymore, and you have that, that sense that going out on your own might be the right move, I would, I would encourage them to to have a lot of conversations, to ask around to people who have already done it. I think the the majority of women, especially working in this space, have been just have been really generous and insightful with their with their experiences, and with opening up their own networks and getting a sense of where those folks might fit, should they strike out on their own. And so I think, like, lean on your lean on your network for support early on, like you will be able to pay that forward or pay it back as you start to develop your voice. And I think that doing that same kind of assessment at the beginning of like figuring out whether this is a triple project or whether this is a real street strategic partnership opportunity playing out like, what's the best possible outcome for this path versus the other one. And you know, what's the future that you want for yourself? And I think the last piece is just also, like, being being patient and being compassionate with yourself and kind to yourself. Like, this is hard, and it's going to be hard. There's going to be days when you're going to cry and, like, wonder why you did this to yourself and your family and and, and that's okay, like, you know that feeling will go away, the only way out is through, and this too shall pass. And, like, there's, there's a lot a lot of good and a lot of support and a lot of joy ahead.

Leah Neaderthal43:55

That's so great. Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us, and I look forward to seeing all of your big wins and all your small wins as we keep

Miriam Brosseau44:04

working together. Amazing. I can't wait.

Leah Neaderthal44:10

All right, I love that conversation, and I want to just pull out one lesson that you can apply to your business today, and it's this concept of the Tribble project. And I love that analogy that she shared, because Tribble is a perfect way to describe projects you take that seem okay. You know, they seem fun and they seem kind of doable at the beginning, but they spiral out of control. You know, these are the projects and the clients that seem maybe smaller than you'd like, or maybe they're not exactly the work that you want, or maybe it's just a little less than you'd like to be paid. And we all know that inner dialog that happens. It's like, I could do it, you know, or maybe I should take it, and it's probably not going to be that much work anyway. And the thing is that what we know. Is that it's never not that much work, right? The smaller projects for less money are never not that much work. And they're never the easiest clients, like ever. They're never the clients that don't need all that much, or they don't contact us that much, or they don't want that many revisions, you know, whatever it is in your world, they're never not that much work. And I know I'm doing double negatives like all over the place, right? And trust me, I'm a total grammar nerd, and I hate myself right now for those last few sentences, but the sentiment is right. You know, they're just never not that much work. And what can happen is that you start to resent the project, or maybe you resent the client, and you sort of kick yourself for doing this to yourself, or maybe for doing it to yourself again. And if these type of projects are the only ones you're getting, it can make you feel like you know, like, why is this happening to me? It can make you feel kind of powerless, because I would imagine that the consulting work that you want isn't that, right? It's not these smaller triple projects. You probably don't want to be treated as an order taker, or, you know, treated like you're only able to do the execution. You probably, I'm guessing, want to be seen as a strategic partner or a thought partner. You know, you want to do work where there's mutual respect and you're involved in the planning, not just riding the back of someone else's roller coaster. And if you found yourself with projects like these Tribble, projects that Miriam found herself with too, it can make you wonder, like, can I ever get the type of work that I really want? And I'm here to tell you that you can, you have the power. But I will say it's not a simple, you know, like flicking a switch and making it happen, and it will not happen by switching your services or making a new landing page on your website. It's like I was saying at the beginning, everything is connected, and so you have to look at the whole business development process. So it starts with positioning your work as a painkiller, showing up and showing up as an expert. It's in how you lead a sales process and how you teach people to think about you and treat you by how you treat yourself. It's also dependent on what else is in your client pipeline. So you're not in a position of having to take on anything just because you need the work. And when you start to do this work and make these changes, you will start to see that you'll get more of the clients and more of the work that you want, just like Miriam did. It was possible for her, and it's possible for you. Hey, everything we're talking about in this episode is part of the system women like you are learning in the academy. In the Academy, we help women consultants install the two systems every B to B consultant needs a marketing system to consistently attract the right clients and a sales system to lead a sales process to a yes and get paid more for every contract. So even if you've only gotten clients through referrals or word of mouth in the academy, you'll learn how to attract and sign clients outside your network, how to lead a sales process with confidence, and how to get paid for your value, not your time, and there's no cold calling or cold emailing involved, no changing your services or making a course, and you won't use any pushy sales tactics. That's just not our vibe. So if you like what you've heard here, the academy may be your right next step to learn how you can get these two systems in your consulting business and make progress faster and with fewer roadblocks. Head to smart gets paid.com/academy and apply and we can chat about next steps. All right, see you over there. You. Transcribed by https://otter.ai