Friends don’t let friends undercharge for their work

Smart Gets Paid Podcast Transcript
Episode 20

Intro (00:02):
You're listening to the Smart Gets Paid podcast with me, Leah Neaderthal. I help women land higher paying clients in their B2B consulting and coaching businesses, but I've never been a sales person. My background is in corporate marketing. And when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about a thousand times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created a sales approach that feels comfortable, makes you feel confident, and it works consistently. And now I teach women how to land higher paying clients in their B2B consulting and coaching businesses. So whether your client contracts are $2,000 or $200,000, if you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love and get paid more than you ever imagined. Then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Welcome to Smart Gets Paid.

Leah (00:54):
Hey, there, Leah here and welcome to this episode of the Smart Gets Paid podcast. So I have this friend who runs a business, kind of like mine, and she is so smart and so awesome and we talk nearly every week and we bring our business problems to each other and help each other figure it out. And it's stuff that for both of us, somewhere deep in our brains, we already kind of know it, but sometimes you just need someone else to tell you or get just a different perspective on it. And that's what she does for me. It's like all of a sudden something unlocks and I can move forward. We actually sort of joke that like, why don't you just for a week, work on my business and all work on your business and we'll solve all the problems. Right? But having a friend like that, having a peer group is so important.

Leah (01:42):
And I was thinking about that as I was putting together this episode, which I'm so excited for you to hear this one is a little different because in this one, you're not just going to hear me coach someone else. This conversation comes from one of the live coaching calls for members and graduates of my Signed program in this program. Every other week, we get together and tackle the business and client, and sales questions that these women are experiencing. And they all have this shared language of the Signed program. And even though I'm helping sort of work through sales questions and make sure that whatever next step they take in the sales process is the right one, where the magic really happens is in the collective genius of this group. So somebody asks a question about how to approach a particular, say client opportunity, or, you know, maybe they're facing a new sales situation.

Leah (02:35):
And the next thing I know, one of the women is weighing in because she used to work in that industry. And another woman is weighing in because she faced a similar situation and here's what worked for her. And another woman is weighing in because she's hearing something in the client's response that clues her into how they might be feeling. And all of a sudden you have this incredible depth of knowledge that is brought to bear to give you help. It's really, really cool for me to watch as a coach. And one of the conversations that happened recently was also just incredibly cool to be a part of. And I wanted to share it with you because the initial problem that one of the members brought to the group is a problem that a lot of women tell me that they struggle with around pricing and how you talk about price when you're in a conversation with a potential client.

Leah (03:27):
So you're going to hear one woman pose the problem and two other women weigh-in to answer it. What you need to know is that all three of these women sell their services to companies. One of them focuses on corporate mental health and other offers, very high-end fundraising consulting for nonprofits, and another offers communication training for midsize and large companies. So I want to thank these Signed Alumni for graciously, allowing me to share this conversation with you. Take a listen and at the end, I'll come back and share a lesson that you can apply to your business. This episode is sponsored by the One-Hour LinkedIn Profile Power Up, my free guide to help you turn your LinkedIn profile into a powerful tool, to get your ideal clients, finding you on LinkedIn, you can get your copy at smartgetspaid.com/profile. So when you're running a B2B consulting coaching or service-based business, your clients are on LinkedIn, but the challenge is how do you actually get them to find you?

Leah (04:26):
Well, it starts with your LinkedIn profile, but most business owners, LinkedIn profiles just sort of sit there, not doing anything for their business. Fortunately, there are seven simple steps that you can take to turn your profile into a powerful tool, to get you in front of your ideal clients on LinkedIn and get them coming to you for your expertise. And they only take about an hour. So grab your copy of the One-Hour at LinkedIn Profile Power-Up today and start turning your LinkedIn profile into a powerful tool to get your ideal clients coming to you. Using LinkedIn, get yours today at smartgetspaid.com/profile.

Guest 1 (05:02):
Leah - So, all right, so what's going on? Speaker 1 - Leah, we talked about this when we did my implementation call, but I need some help with pricing. I am not very good at asking for what my work is worth and it's good cause I identify that as a problem and knowing your problems is the first step to fixing it. I was on a call the other day with a law firm who is ready to buy. They're just in the middle of deciding, like what exactly they want to do for their people. And then as I'm saying numbers, I'm like, you know, I got to write up the proposal for them. And I was like, why did I say such a small number? Like I should have asked for more, not just because I think they would pay it, but also because it would be more reflective of my value.

Guest 1 (05:47):
I mean, I'm glad to see in the chat that I'm not alone, but I'm also like, I don't know what to do to get over this block. Well, yeah, I took your advice on pricing. My workshops I increased it from what I was asking before because I'm not ready to double it yet. The advice was to ask for more, each time I asked for it, but I'm also like these people are looking for ongoing work and I really should have quoted a higher price because it's going to be tricky to raise it later.

Leah (06:14):
Well, I mean, you're a thousand percent not alone. And in fact, we've talked about, this comes up almost every call in some form or fashion. So for those of you who we've talked about this, I'd love to hear how you think about it.

Guest 2 (06:27):
I can speak to this a little bit, this is such a huge issue for me and it's an ongoing issue. And I just had an experience where I quoted a price I was, you know, a bigger price than I've ever quoted in my entire life and the client initially bought and then came back and said, okay, we're giving a year price. And so now that price has become my new sort of set point, right? So it makes me think back to back when I had somebody who literally flew across the country to work with me, and I did the thing that you never do, which was, I quoted a price that was so freaking high, it scared the bejesus out of me. And I heard the words come out of my mouth, but if that's too expensive, then I can scale back the design and I can, you know, which like I never scaled back the design, that’s such BS.

Guest 2 (07:18):
And so the client said, well, you know, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000, it's all the same to me, but I'm sort of a middle-of-the-road kind of guy so let's just go with 4,000. So I lost a thousand dollars because I didn't shut up, right. So I learned from that experience that caught the price and just shut the f**k up. So all this is to say like, it's going to be uncomfortable. So at this point, you already know the price that you need to be charging for your value and to put the value that your clients expect to be paying, because pricing tells a story, right? You need to be feeling a certain level of discomfort. Otherwise, it's not the right price. And so the price that you need to put out there has to make you uncomfortable at this point. So maybe you're not ready to make it to X what it was, but it has to be a price that's going to make you uncomfortable and so put that price out. It's going to make you sweat.

Guest 2 (08:22):
Shut up and then that will start to be your set point. And then you start getting a new price out there that makes you uncomfortable and makes you sweat, put it out there and shut up. And that will become your new set point. And you will start to own that pricing, but it does take a while, and be gentle with yourself. You know, it's okay that you're in this place right now. That's okay. You don't have to beat yourself up about that and if you beat yourself up about that, then be gentle with yourself for beating yourself up. You know, it's all comes back to self-compassion, everything. And this is my golden formula self-awareness plus self-compassion is the key to everything good. Getting down off my soapbox now.

Leah (09:08):
I could have said it better. I'm like, I dunno, my work here is done, a great ...

Guest 3 (09:12):
Ted talk.

Leah (09:15):
Well, thank you for listening to my Ted talk, that was beautiful. Just to sort of pull out two important threads of that. I think one thing just to paraphrase is if you are waiting till you're comfortable to sort of raise your price, raising it is what will make you comfortable, right. Don't wait until you're ready because you're never ready. And one other thing that I think was really interesting is the fact that once you like got to this level and you said a price, which was like $15,000 or something that became your new set point. And I think that we anchor our own prices, right? So it's like if you're charging a thousand dollars and going up to $1,500, seems like a lot. But if you start at 15, going up to 20, it's going to feel pretty comfortable, right? So we've made the anchors. And so what if just for a fun exercise, you sort of gave yourself a little bit of business amnesia. And you said if I was starting today from scratch with none of my stuff, you know, same expertise, but nothing sort of in place, what would I charge? And maybe let yourself have a new set point. So you're not keeping that legacy anchor.

Guest 2 (10:23):
And another thing that I'll add onto that is when you look at other people who are doing similar work, who might be charging more, then there are people out there who are like, dang it, how are they charging that much? I wish I could charge that much. Are there people like that? And what do you want to be charging? Like what do you actually want to be making and, you know, pay attention to those signals? Because I know there are people out there that I'm like, wow, they're making that much money. There are also people out there that are charging a lot less. And those are the people that are like, oh, they're only making that much. Maybe, I shouldn't be charging that much. You know, don't pay attention to that. That's just going to drag you down. But the ones who are making a lot and you're like, wow, I want to make that much. Ooh, pay attention to that. Right. How much do you really want to make?

Leah (11:15):
I'm so proud right now. All right, you already offer some thoughts as well. And anybody can jump in.

Guest 4 (11:21):
I have these brave moments too, where I'm like, yeah, I am worth that. And I'm just going to be I'm worth. But I found I was struggling in the moment when the words need to come out of my mouth that say, well, my fees start at, and then the number, I lose bravery in those three seconds. Like I literally have been practicing that. I'll write down the number on my paper before I go into the discovery call. And I'm like, whatever they say, I don't care what they say. I don't care what story they tell me, it's the number. And I actually did a good job with that. I had four discovery calls on Monday. I threw out a big number to somebody and they were like, okay. That's double what I charge somebody.

Leah (12:00):
Like you were bracing yourself?

Guest 4 (12:00):
I was bracing myself. I feel like the work is in the, do I believe I'm worth it? Or like, what story am I telling myself? When the number comes out, are they going to be like, oh, you're crazy, you're not worth it, you're a loser. And what story are we telling ourselves when the number comes out? Because we're all worth probably a bigger number than we're putting out. I'm working about in that moment, because I found like that's where I'm falling off, where I'll say, I'm going to say my fees start at 20,000. And then on the call, like when they started 12 and I'm like, why did I do that? It's like, it's that moment?

Guest 2 (12:35):
Another thing that I'll add is my big fear, I think is that I'm going to get the reaction of, oh my God, you're kidding me. I never want to speak to you again. Click. Goodbye. And that's probably not actually going to happen, right. That's my big fear. And I did have that happen, I quoted $15,000, which just felt so crazy expensive to me and the client did balk, but their balking was like, "oh, I, I don't think my manager's going to go for that. Is there any way that we can come down to 10? You know, can we adjust the amount of time that you spend?" He was looking for ways that we could do an exchange of value, right. And I had already prepared negotiation options, and I just pulled that up in my Google drive. And so we brought that into the conversation and then as it happened, the manager was like, yes, we can give her the 15K. But you know, going into, if you have that concern, you know have your BATNA ready to go, what does it mean, best alternative for...

Leah (13:40):
The Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement

Guest 4 (13:43):
Agreement. You have your BATNA all ready to go, you know, have them list it out for yourself so that you know what you're going to say and just say, yeah, if you're willing to negotiate, be willing to do an exchange of value, if you are.

Leah (13:59):
And what’s hitting you in the best way right now?

Guest 5 (14:02):
Like all of it, it's all good stuff. Yeah. I think just like saying this is the number and this is what it is part of the challenge, I think too, is that I'm going to learn from this. Before tomorrow when I have other calls scheduled, is that I had gone into the call with an idea of a program that I think the thing that I talked about in the group about how I was turning it into a thing that I would sell to companies, as opposed to try and do a group program. And I hadn't scheduled aside the time or taking the time to like write out for myself what that was going to look like as a corporate program or where I was going to price it. And then the call, I said a number that after I thought about it, I was like that wasn't right. And so it's tricky. And so far as like...

Leah (14:41):
Is that the proposal that I just did a review for? Speaker 5 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leah - I said that should be more expensive.

Guest 5 (14:46):
Okay. Thank you for doing the review for it. Yeah, and it's funny cause I sent it in, I think there was one of my comments on the form like, I'm pretty sure I needed to have asked for more money. I think this is the spot I'm weak on still. But yeah, I feel like it was closer to where a good price is, but I still think that I need to spend a little bit of time thinking through where I want to price these things and what they're actually worth.

Leah (15:12):
All right. There's a lot here. But one thing I want you to walk away with is what you heard about comparing your pricing to someone else's pricing. So I talked to a lot of women who see that other people are charging less than they are and it makes them question their own pricing. It's really easy to look at other people and say, well, I can't charge more than that. Or this is industry pricing or what have you. The thing is that how people price their own services, that's their business. That's not your business. So instead look at the people who are charging, what you want to be making and focus on them. And don't let anyone question whether you're charging too much, especially not you. Another thing I want you to hear in this conversation is that if you feel the same hesitation or discomfort in pricing yourself at the level you want, I want you to know that you're not alone.

Leah (16:03):
The women that you heard in this call, they've been working on this and it's still something that they're working on. And it's no wonder because the way that we feel about our value and our worth and what we can charge and what we can ask from other people, that's the buildup of years of messages that we heard as girls and women. It's the lessons that we learned early in our careers. It comes from messages about how women are supposed to be, or the messages we internalize about money or how women are supposed to feel or act about money. And because of that, raising your prices, charging more, it's not something that happens at once because money mindset and knowing your worth is not a switch that you could just flip. And it's done. It's a constant growth, a constant learning, and there's a lot of unlearning that has to happen.

Leah (16:52):
So if you are struggling with pricing yourself at the level you want or asking for the business or talking about price on calls with your clients, what makes all of this harder is beating yourself up. So be nice to yourself. Oh, before I leave you, I just want to mention that the next class of my program Signed is starting on August 23rd. This is my program where you learn how to master the sales process, sign more of the clients you want and get paid dramatically more for every client engagement. Even if you've never sold before or if you hate the sales part. I'm doing something new this time, you're going to spend 10 weeks with me learning the fundamentals of selling and then get a year of support to help you actually sell to and sign the clients you're talking to. So you're never alone in this process and you always know the right next step. So if you're ready to finally learn how to sell, if you're ready to feel more confident in this part of your business. And if you're ready to get paid a whole lot more for your work, check out Signed, starting on August 23rd, learn more and see some recent results@ at smartgetspaid.com/signed.

Leah (17:55):
Hey, thanks for hanging out with me. If you liked this episode, take a second and click the subscribe button wherever you're listening to your podcasts. And you'll be notified as soon as I release a new episode. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts I’d so appreciate it if you took two seconds and left a rating or a review. This tells the Apple podcasts, hey there's good stuff in here and they'll recommend it to other listeners who might benefit from these lessons for their business. So please take a second and add a rating or review, thanks! So that's it for now. I'll see you next time on Smart Gets Paid podcast, learn more about Smart Gets Paid programs and coaching and smartgetspaid.com.