Choosing Your Path: Business Ownership and Personal Growth, with Amanda Moncada-Perkins

Amanda Mocada-Perkins 0:02

I know myself a lot more. I know my capabilities a lot more. I still am learning my capabilities, but I'm not afraid of my shadow like I was before. I'm not looking to the validation of other people like I was before. My focus is, how do I make my clients lives better? And so that's the vantage point that I'm walking into the season of my life with.

Welcome to the Smart Gets Paid podcast with me, Leah Neaderthal, I help women land higher paying clients in their independent consulting businesses, but I've never been a salesperson. My background is in corporate marketing, and when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about 1000 times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created the sales approach that I now share with my clients so they can feel more comfortable in the sales process, get more of the right clients and get paid way more for every client contract. So whether your client contracts are $5,000 $100,000 or more. If you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever thought you could, then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to rate, review and share. Hey there. Leah, here, and thanks for joining me in this episode. I hope that wherever you are, wherever you're listening to this, I hope you're having a great week, making some good progress in your business and taking some time for you. So today, we're diving into a conversation that takes a bit of a turn, because the way it starts out isn't the way it ends, and the steps between those two points are exciting and empowering and uplifting, but they're also a bit surprising and heart wrenching and very real. So I'm so excited to share this episode with you today. I'm talking with Amanda Moncada Perkins, who's a business attorney who I got to work with when she was in the academy. And what's amazing about Amanda is just how hard she worked in the academy to build her business. And really the blood, sweat and tears, lots of tears she'll tell you about, that, lots of tears she put in, and as a result, how she had really gotten her business to a really exciting place, and it was actually doing quite well. And so about eight months ago, I invited her onto the podcast to talk about that journey and what she had learned through that process and what she could share with you. And we had a great conversation that was really fun, and you're gonna hear that conversation here. And so, like I said, that was about eight months ago. And so fast forward to just a few weeks ago, when we had started working on this episode, and I got an email from Amanda. The email said that due to personal circumstances outside of her control, she had made the decision to close her business, and she had taken a position at a big law firm. She said that, you know, her business was doing well. She was really proud of it, but she needed to focus on what truly required her focus right now, which was her personal circumstances, which I totally support. I mean, we talk a lot about making the right decisions for the season of your life. And so I reached back out to her first, I mean, just to see how she was doing, and also to ask if it still felt right to share our conversation on the podcast. And she said it absolutely did. She said everything I said in that episode was absolutely true, and I believe the information can really help others. And so we ended up jumping on a quick call so that I could ask a few questions and just hear a little bit more about what was going on, so that when we did tell the story on the podcast, I was representing her and her situation accurately and really honoring you know what was going on. And when we got on that call and Amanda started talking about how she took this next step, I kind of couldn't believe what I was hearing. I was like This in itself, is powerful and really incredible and important. And so I paused, and I asked her if we could record and share that part with everybody. And she said, Yes. So what you're gonna hear in this episode is a story in two acts. The first act is a story of a woman who wanted to break out of a mold of her industry and do things a new way, and who pushed herself to a new edge and shed what felt like blood, sweat and tears to build her business and become the business owner that she wanted to be. And that story is a really powerful one for us as business owners. And then the second act is the conversation we had eight months later, when she made a shift due to her personal circumstances. That story is a story of a woman who returned to her roots, but this time, she came back a completely changed person, someone who is stronger, more assured, more solid, and that story is powerful for us as human beings. I. So I'm so glad to be able to share with you my conversations with Attorney Amanda Moncada Perkins, I want to send a huge thank you to Amanda for allowing me to share this story with you. So let's dive into part one, and I'll come back in a bit right after this. Amanda, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being here.

I'm excited to be here. Leah, I'm always excited to chat with you.

Amanda, tell the folks what you do.

I am a business attorney. My focus is working with or collaborating with women CEOs to help them protect and grow their companies, their business and their intellectual property.

Yes, and that even alone, I know was a big journey to be able to say that concisely,

it was a journey. It was a complete journey. I don't know how many times I told you that I can't do this painkiller thing. It doesn't make sense. I went through 15 iterations.

What you have is really tight, and I love it. So Amanda, how long have you been running your business? We

are going into two years this April. Awesome years, this April. Yeah. So

congratulations. So talk to me about when we first got to know each other, what was going on in the business, what were some of the things that needed to be solved.

So I actually had been following you before I launched, or right around the time I launched my law firm and and so I really wasn't sure that I was going to need a coach to help me with the law firm piece, but I was listening to your content and everything and what you were talking about in terms of sales kind of struck me in a way that I had not been privy to before, because I just hate selling. I think everybody, anybody listening on this podcast, probably hate selling. And so I knew that's accurate 100% so I knew there was going to be a part of this where I was like, Okay, I'm going to need to sell my legal services. So I was just like, listening to your content, but it wasn't until I would say I noticed I had not really made many sales, but I was like, Maybe I need some assistance with this, because by that time, I had already sent out emails letting people know that I had opened my doors. And so the whole flutter of Oh, Amanda's providing legal services, which most people knew about me being a lawyer that had died down. And so I was like, What do I do now? So I needed to find a way to get more people in the door, but comfortably. And your message just resonated. So at the time that I reached out, I was in that process of, I need more business to come through the door, and I don't know how to do this authentically or in a way that feels good. And you had a message that resonated with me that was like, you can sell. You can get clients in the door without having to make it feel slimy or uncomfortable, and you can actually do this relatively sooner than you think. So I was like, All right, let me chat with Leah and see what this is about. Yeah,

and you're right. I mean, sometimes that what we call the first wave of clients. Sometimes it it can last a long time. Sometimes it dies down really quick. Sometimes it doesn't even materialize. Because I think everybody you might reach out to wants to help, right? And they're excited for you and all these things, but they're busy, and you're not their first priority, you know? And so it's like, okay, I'm here. I have the services come

work with me. Yeah, so that part, I have the services. I have the talent. Hello, I have the things here. What you know, aren't you going to come? And that whole adage about build it and they will come is, No, they won't. Really, you have to actually do some work. And the other part was the mindset, and maybe we can talk about this too, which is Amanda. There are a lot of other business lawyers out here. Why should they want to work with you in particular? And so I was grappling with the whole, don't you want to work with me? I'm smart. I come for like, look at my background. I've come from these big, globally recognized law firms. Haven't you heard about me? Not in an arrogant way, but kind of like, I'm smart. Why wouldn't you want to come and work with me and whatnot? But people just didn't come

well, and that's, that's, you make a really good point, because you had this, these good credentials, like, where, what were you doing before you started your firm? Oh, my

God. Okay, so before I started my firm. I was working in big law, which is similar to what we would call corporate, and I had done that at two, like I said, globally recognized law firms. So I was working with, like fortune 100 fortune 500 companies and negotiating their deals. And so I had this idea that I would leave. I left for so many reasons. But I would leave, and I would pursue an entrepreneurial journey that didn't include law initially, because I was I had a lot of mine trash going on, so I'll skip that part. But then I decided, You know what, I still miss being an attorney, so let me open my law firm and and serve people in the way that I was doing for these big companies. Let me go and negotiate deals for smaller, mid sized companies, but women CEOs specifically.

I love it. I love it. You sort of glossed over it. But can we talk about the mind trash? What was the mind trash? What was it?

Telling you, I had some help from some of the friends at my law firm scaring me about leaving. I heard things like, you're committing career suicide. You know, to be a respectable attorney, you want to be here in places like this, or you go work in the government. There's no in between, right? And, and so this idea of losing my identity, not really being taken seriously and not really mattering, I guess, to the people without having this the backing of these types of firms behind me was jarring and scary. Who am I to think that I can go and be successful without them? Was going through my mind, and then the other part was, as I learned that there were other attorneys that were already out in this space. Again, my thought was, Who am I to think that I would bring any value that they're not already bringing? I also grappled with the idea that no one, no big company, is going to want to work with me. They're going to be like, You're small potatoes. You're like, come on. And so I dealt with that too. What kind of clients am I going to be able to land? Are they going to take me seriously, even these women CEOs that I want to help? Are they going to look at me and go, come on, dude, you your new firm? I don't have time, right? If I'm going to hire an attorney, I'm going to go hire those guys over there that have been around for 100 years, and so I'm there was a lot going on in my brain, so I was grappling with a lot of like, self worth issues, and I just needed help to tell myself, you are more than capable of doing this. And eventually it really started to show and now I'm in a place where I'm just like, Excuse me, I have people calling my firm wanting to work with me that are high profile companies. I have, like celebrities that are reaching out. Like, it's just, it's wild and completely unimaginable at the time when I first started.

Oh my gosh. Well, let's, let's fast forward to today, and then we'll sort of rewind and talk about how you how you got there. So from head trash to now, whatever, what have been some results you've seen from some of the the work that we did, like, what's, what's changed for the better? So

we've definitely worked on the head trash, the mind trash that was going through, I don't know I Leah, I probably cried on every coaching call that we were on, and and I'm grateful that you've all had the patience and the space and the grace to deal with that, because I I cried a lot. This is just like, I don't know if I'm being successful, and here's what I'm grappling with and working through that, and just having support through that was very helpful in unimaginable ways, but also just putting some structure around my processes was very helpful. I'm already a very organized person, and I'm I know most of the people that you work with are like OCD, type A, OCD, all of that, where all the labels were all the things. But it doesn't matter how smart you are, how organized you are, how capable you are. Running a business takes a different beat, right? There's a different drum there. And so you have to take those skills that you already have and them into a system. So we work through that. And examples are like, how do I prepare a proposal? How do I conduct a sales call? I don't even call it a sales call. I hate that term, but discovery. How do I follow up? Oh, my God, follow up. And let me tell you something like they say there's like fortune in the follow up. That's very true, but it's how you do it, the confidence and the language that you use, which is super interesting for me, because I negotiate like that. I'm a negotiator. This is what I do for my clients, but for myself, it was like I what you called one down in yourself in the emails that you're sending. So that was super helpful, too. But most importantly, what was helpful was raising my prices in a way that made sense to me. Because even though a lot of coaches will say you need to raise your prices, which I won't disagree, the idea of how to do that and what is value, took me a while to understand, and working with you helped me iron that out. So now I raise my now I raise my prices, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right. No problem. And I feel good about it.

Oh my gosh, I love it. So you called out a few things, doing great discovery. Talk to Can you say a little bit more about how you're thinking about these that may be different than before? Yeah, okay, so

this is interesting. Like I said, I'm gonna I'm an attorney, and so we typically, we're not looking to speak to our clients about the value we're providing, because it's like, it almost seems to be understood there's a value there. You're hire an attorney, protect yourself. But that's not true, like we have to explain value like anybody else. And I had a really hard time at that initially, but now in my discovery calls, I can speak to it a lot better than I used to. So want them. I asked them straight out, straight up, like, how can I be of value to you? What is success for you if we've if we're working together? Yeah, I know you need a contract drafted. Yep, I understand you need to register your trademark. But there's something deeper here that's concerning you something deeper that you really want to accomplish, and that opened up a whole different world for me to start talking to my clients about ultimate outcomes that they are going to benefit from, as opposed to a tool like a contract. Yeah, I

remember this was a really, a big challenge that you were facing so much of our conversations were around, people come to me for a contract, but I don't want to just do a contract. I want to provide this business value. Yeah,

and you're right. I had to make the shift in my own brain, because I'm like, I was devaluing myself. I'm like, it's just a contract. Anybody can draft the contract. It's just a trademark. Anybody could register a trademark, until I started asking those questions about what would be valuable for you. So things that started coming up were, I just need to know that I can go into this business deal and not stress out, not find myself with this weird situation where I'm owing money I didn't anticipate, or there was like fear there about the unknowns, like they would people would talk about unknowns. People would talk about how they'd been burned in the past through business dealings. So I'm having those kinds of conversations. I have conversations with clients that get to I really want to grow. I want to be I want to be in a place to sell my business one day. So I need to be audit ready. I need to be in a position where people look at me and think that I'm a well oiled machine, right? Like these kind of things that are coming up, and I'm like, oh my god, this is a whole different world of describing legal services embedded in business. And so now I look at my work as these are some tools I can use to help you get to that ultimate goal, but the focus is that ultimate goal. So

you had to open the door for them to tell you that, and then you had to structure the work and the prices and all you know, all of that to support that. Yeah, so and so. Talk about raising your

prices. Yeah, yeah. If I'm starting from the perspective of, this is just a contract that's in my brain, okay, that's just worth $500 maybe 1000 but if I'm starting from a place of, what does this tool enable my client to do, and not just in the short term, but long term. Yes, that's a whole different thing. That's a whole different ball game. What does this trademark enable my client to do, and even in their own words? So I start from, I start from how impactful is this going to be for the client, and then I work my way back, as opposed to being let me start from the tool and then derive a price. I start from the value piece and then derive the price. That is such

an important shift, because what you're saying is what we talk about, and what I am trying to preach to everybody, which is the price doesn't start with the thing the price starts in the conversations when you really probe and open the door for people to tell you what is important about this. Why must it succeed, you know? And then it's not just taking the contract and being like, Well, I was going to charge this, but now I'm going to charge that. It's really understanding what set of tools will help achieve the value, or what other how are we really going to get there? And what's the value of all of that to the client,

and if I could add to that, Leah as well, what's factoring into my decision is letting client, because your pricing, communicates a message too, and so letting my clients know that working together is an investment, because this is going to be something that benefits you long term, and so I don't ever want to cheapen that feeling of us working together. So my prices aren't cheap by any means, and I'm okay if a client goes, Oh, okay, take a moment to think. Through the pricing, because that also tells me that this is a serious investment for them as well, and that makes us both collaborate even more powerfully together.

Yes, you said it like that's they have to have skin in the game, right? And you know, if somebody, if you name your price, or you present your your price for the scope and they're like, yep, that's great. That's great. Fine. Almost everybody thinks to themselves, did I even price it right? Should I charge more? I mean, the truth is, you have to price your work according to what's right for you, right, right? And so it's not about just like getting as much as possible, but you're right that we're always teaching the client how to think about us and the value of our work, and if we devalue it, what can we expect the client to think

of it? Oh, my god, yeah, what you just said happened to me maybe yesterday. I'm on the call with this one client, and I'm like, okay, so it's going to be this the fee will be around this much. And he said, Yes, a little too quickly for me. And I was like, okay, so I did have one of those moments. Listen,

it happens. It happens to me. It's okay. It's not about if you always are thinking about, like, well, how much can I get? Or did I leave money on the table, or whatever, you will drive yourself crazy. All you can do is price your work according to, again, like, what's right for you, your business, your family, your life, all of those things. Yeah, that's real, and it's just so interesting. I'm just sort of reflecting on where you came from in terms of, like, law firms have a very standard pricing. It's just hourly, hourly rates, yeah,

oh my gosh, yes. That is okay. That is another thing. So to be completely candid, my reservation about working with you is the fact that I am an attorney and this highly regulated field, and I know that you work with consultants, and I never considered myself a consultant, right? And so I'm like, I'm not a consultant. And then you spoke with a group of us, like a group of attorneys, and you're like, you guys are consultants. And the way you laid it out was like, ah, yeah, we do provide we give advice, we provide strategies, all of those things, right? We have to abide by certain laws and rules or whatever. But so I was like, oh, okay, but one of the sticking points for me was also like, everyone does this hourly thing, and I know Leah talks about not trading your time for hours and things like that. And I believed in that. I believed in that. But I was like, How do I work through that and be competitive and blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, I was coming from a background where it was always hourly, and I now needed to figure out, how can I structure my time and my fees in a way that I am lucrative, profitable, and not feeling like I am working all of the time just to make money, because I just didn't want that either. So I was ready to leave that behind. So I figured, you know what? Let me do this ambitious, wild thing and go work with Leah. I laugh and say I took this big risk or whatever. And truly it was me trying to step outside of my own comfort zone, which is part of the reason that I was like, this is a good idea to go and work with you, because you are not, you're not an attorney, and you're not going to tell me to do it this way, because attorneys do it that way. And so I now operate with a complete with just a different spectrum. I think I was, I don't know you can correct me if I'm wrong. I think I was one of the only attorneys practicing, attorneys in your in your program, and so for that, it took me really pushing myself to think more creatively, and I appreciate that I do, because now, when I work with clients, they will tell me, you don't operate like a normal law firm. It's just it feels so much different. It feels so much more collaborative, it feels so much more inviting, and so on. And I love that. I absolutely love that. So, yes, it was a risk worth taking, but I took it

well, I just want to say the risk you were taking wasn't on me. The risk you were taking was on you.

Yes, absolutely, yeah, because I could have easily gone, let me go work with this law firm coach that teaches law firms how to law firm. And I was like, I just want to do it differently, so I don't really in ways. I feel like I run a law firm, yes, but I really feel like I'm running a business, just like my clients are running a business. And so I speak to them from that vantage point, as opposed to being I'm your attorney, you're the business owner. No, we're both business owners. I just have an expertise in the law.

Oh, that is so powerful. That's so powerful. It just get you. Just gave me chills. Bring us up to speed. Where's your business now?

So now I okay when I first started working with you, the pipeline was really dry. Let me tell you, it was very dry. Now I regularly have regularly scheduled discovery calls, and really this. Sometimes when I've listened to these interviews, I'm like, how are these people doing this? That is not possible, but it really is, I promise you, I promise you, it is possible, but I have regularly scheduled discovery calls and and I'm always so grateful for that, because I know it, it took effort to get there, and I'm continuing to show up and put in the effort so that I can have them. But I'm grateful for that so I can look at my little sales pipeline and see that there, there's some potential money there, which is awesome. I have become much more consistent with my marketing efforts and leaning into what feels good for me so that I can show up consistently. You said something in the beginning where you were like so your sales, your sales timeline may be anywhere from three months to 18 months. And so you have to be doing the the work today. If you needed a client today, you needed to have been reaching them, like three or 18 months ago. And I'm like, Oh my God, but the truth of the matter is, that's real. So you show up consistently every day, and I try to do that, so that's been helpful. My where am I today? Like when it comes to my discovery calls, I don't even break sweats anymore about hopping on calls with clients. I used to be like, oh my goodness, hopefully this is not TMI. I have the bubble guts because I'm about to get on this call with a new client, a potential client, I'm going to have to tell them all the things I get on the calls now, feeling like I'm ready for a conversation, right? And so I handle those differently. My proposals are in a much better place, like you. And I went back and forth about the proposals for a while, and I think when I first sent you my first iteration of a proposal, you're like this. This is good. Let's edit it a little bit.

This is, that is me going, that is peak southern. Peak Southern woman right there. Yeah,

being like, bless your heart, exactly. But now, like, I just hammered out a proposal in no time that I sent right before you, and I started talking, and I'm just like, look at this proposal. This looks really good. And so I just feel like there are systems in place that were that were just not there, or were not strong in the beginning that I now have, and it's just made me the systems have actually made me more confident to run my company and to have people coming through the door. The other thing I will say is the way that we worked on marketing, so you focus a lot on LinkedIn, which initially I was apprehensive of because I just could not believe there was going to be a platform that I could get clients from. I just I could not believe that, but I was like, I'm open minded. I'm going to try this. Leah, half of my clients come from LinkedIn. Oh my god, what is that?

It's real. It is so real. I'm glad you believed.

You turned me into a believer. And so, like, I get referrals, yes, which is great. And so I have a system around that, right? Like, how to consistently nurture my network so that I can get referrals, which, oh my God, has been amazing. But even the way that you've helped teach, like, how do you connect with people authentically? On LinkedIn, the number of times I sent connection requests to people that I think are ideal clients, not selling them anything, but it's landed into a client chef's kiss, it's ridiculous. So I am I? Yeah, that's where I am today. I got an email from my account, and he was like, nice work for this year. He goes the here's the goal for next year, like we could get there really easily. And I was like, Oh my God, look at that. Because when you're in the trenches and you're doing the thing, you're just like, oh, is money coming? I don't know, somehow I'm still paying the bills and I'm doing this and that, and just to have that conversation with him was really great and assuring. So I was like, Oh, this is awesome. I'm proud of myself. Good job. Amanda,

oh my gosh, this. I all of this. I'm you can't see me, but, like, you guys can't see me, but I am just, I'm beaming. Can we talk about the email that you sent me? Oh, yeah,

yeah. This was, this was straight from the heart. I was like, I gotta, I gotta let her know.

Yeah, totally about me to call it. Okay, yeah. Totally good people. Okay, wait, let me just set the scene. So I was on a weekend. None of this is really important, I guess, for the story. But I had gone on a weekend trip with my sister, and we were like, just, you know, shopping or whatever, and I pulled out my phone, like, mindlessly, you know, as you do, and I looked down and I saw this email from you, and this is what it said,

yes. So I'm paraphrasing here, so I won't read it word for word, but it was essentially that, Leah, I just want to thank you so much for working with me, because you helped me in this, like my first year of business, and I was knocking on the door of six figures in my first year, my first full year, and I was like, and that was, I know, in part, due to the work that I had to put in, obviously, but your coaching. And your help. And I was just so grateful. I was so grateful I got news from my accountant, and I was like, oh my god, I have to tell Leah. And so, Leah, I am truly thankful, like you were my first hands on business coach, and I couldn't have asked for a better experience.

Truly, oh my gosh that thank you so much. I mean, I didn't want you tell the part that was about me. This is about this is really about you and like, your journey. And when you say, like, yeah, it's a little bit about the work, Amanda, you did the work like you worked so hard.

I y'all, I was crying all the time. I did work really hard. And I

you, you know, you worked like you worked hard. Listen, yes, there's hard work in this, but you worked hard to, like, really implement, do you know what I'm saying? Like, really internalize this process and make it like, not just part of the business, but like, part of you,

right? No, I would agree. And just to kind of piggyback on that it was, it took a lot of like, effort and intention, because I was trying to I'm trying to learn while I unlearn. Right? Yeah, absolutely. I'm around all of these amazing women, but these people that are like that seem like they're so successful, and I'm like, Oh my God, how do I even get on their level? So it took me to just be diligent truly. It just was like, do the thing, do the work, ask for the feedback, put it into practice, even when, even at times where I'm like, I don't know that this is gonna work, but I gotta try it anyway, and I'm glad that I did do that, because here's the other part. You're making this investment. I'm making this investment into this program, into working with you. And the last thing I want is to walk away and go, oh, that didn't work. Frankly, I was going to take something from this investment one way or another. So I obviously took quite a bit. And so it shows, yeah, it's

being, as you said, being diligent. The only way to learn this is to do it. The only way to do it is to do it like there's no, this is not a three week program, because you there's just, you can't just download it or flick a switch, you know, you have to learn the steps.

And actually, so I would join calls. There were times where I would say, none of this stuff applied. Nobody's an attorney on this call. They're not going to get it. But I would still, I would join the calls this, the coaching calls, the marketing calls, you know, and every single time I made it up in my mind, I'm going to take something from this call, no matter what, I'm going to take something, I'm going to add something, and it's like the universe responds in a way where you get what you put in. And so I was just very So initially, like I said, I was like, oh my god, I'm this attorney, blah, blah, blah. But towards the end of it, it was like, Oh no, this works for me. This can work for me. So it's, it's intention for sure.

Yeah, well, so can I share something with you. It's Hold on. Let me pull this up. So you know, we've talked about how you You work so hard on like your discovery and your follow up, and how you structure your work and all of that stuff. Hold on. Let me find this. So I understand that somebody who's currently in the academy, reached out to you and, like, wanted to, you know, evaluate working with you for a new initiative that she's working on, right? And I gotta tell you, I want to read you what she posted.

I thought you were going in the archives and pulling out something crazy. I said I was like, there's probably something there. Oh, my

God. What if that was like a whole series of the podcast being like, flashback. Look at this question you asked, like, last year. Okay. She goes, here's a fun reverse win. This so she posted this in the wins channel, and she goes, here's a fun reverse win. I'm considering joining a group of partners too, and she was talking about this initiative that she's working on. I need a lawyer. I reached out to former Academy member Amanda Moncada Perkins, who's an attorney, and she goes her discovery process was gorgeous, amazing trick. You should see Amanda's face right now. Her discovery process was gorgeous, amazing, transparent expert. Her follow up was top notch. It was one of the best sales calls ever, and I plan to hire her. Just wanted everyone to know that this process feels good as the consultant and as the client.

Oh my god. I am tearing up right now. Oh my god.

So what I mean? We don't often get to see the other side of this, but the work that you've put in is paying off. Because I'm I'm glad that it feels good for you as a business owner, and I'm really glad it also feels good for

your clients. Wow, y'all cannot see this, but I am really tearing up right now that is, I know exactly who you're talking about as well, and I. That's amazing, because it's almost obviously she's going through the same, you know,

she's learning these things. Yeah, she's learning the actual system, right, right?

That is amazing I am. That also brings me, makes me teary eyed, because just yesterday, I had a potential client who does want to move forward as well, who was referred to me go back to the referral partner and say Amanda was very smart, engaging, and I can't wait to work with her. I've never met an attorney like this before, and I'm like, Oh my god. So to hear your message today is this is great. Thank you for sharing that. It's really touched my heart a lot, and obviously shows the effectiveness of putting in the work that was Thank you for saying that. Well,

of course, of course, you deserved it. Or I should say, you, you've earned it. So what would you say to someone who's in the position that you were back then, in the moment that you were in? What advice would you

give her? So I'm gonna I'm gonna speak to this person as though I'm speaking to a fellow attorney as well. I will say to this person a few things. One, think of yourself as so much more than a profession you have so much more to offer, and so challenge yourself to think of yourself as an expert who is bringing transformative value to your clients, because that is who you are. And then start from there, because that will change the dynamic of not only how you see yourself, but how you interact with your clients, and they'll appreciate that a lot more trust. Trust that if you do the work and you make the effort, you will see the return. And it won't happen on day one, but it will happen. So stay consistent. Challenge yourself to think outside of the box of what you've been told is possible, and try to create your own version of possibility, because it's far more fun, it's far more creative, it is far more fulfilling that way than to carry forward things you've been told that may not necessarily be right for you, and get yourself a coach, get your get yourself a coach early in the process, and really implement the things that you're being told and even if you feel like, oh, this doesn't apply, tell yourself that no matter what, you're going to take something away from that experience and that investment. You're going to make it worth it

that is so beautiful. And hearing that and anybody can take your words and they are gold and apply them to their business and to their situation. So thank you for sharing that. Amanda, where can people find you? Yeah,

on LinkedIn, on LinkedIn. So Amanda, our mon carta Perkins on LinkedIn, you will find me there, and then you can navigate to my website, email, all of that stuff, but LinkedIn is where you can find me.

Thank you so much for being here and sharing your journey with everybody. Thank

you for allowing me to share this. Leah, it really is. It's amazing to be able to reflect real time and talk about how I've had successes and not to breeze past them. Yeah. Thank you. Absolutely

so if we had done this episode a few months ago, then this would be the end. This would be the end of the story. And don't get me wrong, Amanda's journey as a business owner is inspiring, all on its own. And as I mentioned, as we were working on this episode, Amanda announced that due to some personal circumstances beyond her control, she made the decision to close her business, and she had joined a big law firm, Kirkland and Ellis, so we jumped on Zoom to talk about it, and she shared with me that even though she was looking forward to her new role, she was still very much processing the decision to close the business and some of the circumstances that led to it. But there was something else that I heard, as well as she shared more about what led her to this new role, I realized that I was hearing something really incredible. It's a sort of growth story in itself, almost like a redemption story that builds on everything she did as a business owner, and every ounce of work she put in that brought her to this moment. So I especially want to thank Amanda for allowing me to share what happened next. Okay, so no, I mean, this is crazy, because what you're describing is like your it's its own redemption story. So can you just back up for a second so so you didn't have from what was going on in your life? If you you could do the functional work of the business. But you didn't. You found it hard to find any, like, emotional or spiritual commitment to the business because of, like, what was going on in your world, right? Yeah, okay, so, so, but tell me, like, what you just said about, like, you're, you're going back into big law, like, and you said you started with, like, you said, your business set me up for that.

Yeah, I feel like my business set me up for my re entry or my grand return. I suppose I don't know big law. I think my business set me up for that, and I but I didn't realize it, at least not seriously, because I was still mulling over what that one partner told me ages ago, which was, like, you leave this firm, you're committing career suicide. And I was like, wow, you know. So I just figured I probably am never going to go back to corporate like that, you know. So when it was time for me to start looking for positions, I figured I'm going, I figured I'm going to look for smaller shops, because those are the ones that will take me seriously. And that's so undermining. It's, it's just so undermining. But that was where my head was like, play it safe or whatnot. But I also, I'm a big believer in God, and so I was just like, you know, Lord, open the doors that need to be opened, close the doors that need to be closed, and I'm going to go where you tell me to go. So I'm working with the recruiter, and she's like, why don't we also put in for Kirkland? And I was like, What? No, no. First of all, I don't think they're going to take me seriously. They're going to take one look at my resume and check it. And secondly, I'm like, I don't know that I want to be back in big law because of the experiences that I had. And so she was like, two things. One, it just, let's just see what happens, you know? And if they say no, then you already you're ready for that. Fine. And then two, why don't you speak to some people that have been there and and see what they have to say. So I start talking to people about their experiences, and they're raving about the culture. So I went back to the recruiter and was like, Okay, let's submit the resume. Let's see what happens. Kirk COVID was like, we want to talk. And I was like, what this is wild. And the recruiter was like, This is really good. She's like, they say no, a lot. They say a lot. And they're like, We want to talk. So I was like, Okay, I jump on the call with the senior partner in the corporate m&a and group, and we spoke for maybe 510 minutes. And he was like, well, we'll get back to you. They told the recruiter, let's set her up for the next round of interviews. When I spoke with him again, he was like, I knew in the first five minutes that I wanted to hire you like Amanda. You have, you have all of this stuff with you, right? Like you, you been in big law before. You know how to do that. You run your own thing. I know. You know you have, like, executive presence, right? You know how to engage with clients. You understand business in a completely different way, like you will be stellar here. So it effectively became, like, I met several people, and it effectively became, what do we need to do to get you here?

Wait a minute, because you had, I think, before we turned on the recording, you were saying that, like you were like, there's no way they're even going to take me seriously, right? Because, like, I've been over here. I think you said, like, I've been over here playing at law, right? Because

when you're in big law, and I'm pretty sure this is for most folks that are in corporate, to leave that atmosphere, of people make several assumptions. One, you couldn't hack it, or two, you just want a different kind of lifestyle. You're never going to come back, right? If you get off that path, then it's okay. You're a lost cause, right? We're just not we're not paying any attention to you anymore. It was like playing Russian roulette with my career, essentially, that is at least the impression I had. But what was interesting is I now, I said I was working with a recruiter. I told her, let's focus on these smaller shops. I was not sure about big law. And I made that prayer God closed the doors that need to be closed, open the doors that need to be opened. Every small shop said, No,

Unknown Speaker 44:10

whoa.

Amanda Mocada-Perkins 44:12

And Kirkland was a resounding yes. And I was like, see, that's God. It was like. God was like, Yeah, we're not going here. What are we doing? That's where you're going. And it's like, okay, that's where I'm going. And I'm so grateful for that, because it was like, God was telling me you are not meant to play small. Stop trying to play small that. Stop trying to play small with your business. Stop trying to play small in this in corporate, you are going to go where you are called to go, and that is to operate at a high level.

I don't, I mean, we're on Zoom, like, I like, I'm actually tearing up right now. This is wonderful. I mean, it's really, you're right, you know, I know you. You are definitely not destined to play small and. Anything. So, what a gift, what a gift. And this is so great, like I said. I mean, this is, like, its own redemption story, right? It's like, how, how this went, you know, now versus five years ago when you left big law, right? It's completely different. It's like you went off and had this, you had, like, a business walkabout, you know, and had this incredible experience, and built this thing, and built yourself, and, you know, all of that, and then, and then you came back, I'm guessing, a completely different person, completely

different, completely different. I there's a level of confidence that I have about me that's not arrogance by any means. It's just I know myself a lot more. I know my capabilities a lot more. I still am learning my capabilities, but I'm not afraid of my shadow like I was before. I'm not looking to the validation of other people like I was before, and I'm happy about that, because it's allowed me to be more effective in guiding my clients right, like I'm not looking and seeing Am I doing this way or whatever? I'm literally just my focus is, how do I make my clients lives better? And that I don't have time to be afraid to move in order to do that for them. I don't have time to be second guessing myself, and I don't have time to be thinking about what this person thinks of me and that person thinks of me, because the end goal is not about that. The end goal is about helping my clients. And so that's the vantage point that I'm walking into the season of my life with, and I'm very grateful for that. There was one other thing I was going to mention about about it, which was, like, it is a testimony, I think, to go where you're valued, right? We talk so much in business about value and, but not just value and what we're providing for the client, but value and where we feel appreciated, where we feel that people see us and and not just like as a as our output, but as us, as a human being and and so as as I've been working building my business, I've had to sit in that a lot like, know your worth, Amanda. Don't settle Amanda. Work with the people that want to work with you as well, and that won't push back on you or make you doubt yourself and all of that your clients, right? So I had that vantage point in business, but then this journey has been interesting too, because I'm working like, I'm trying to land a job, right. And some of these people are like, I feel like I'm almost like, begging them to see me right. However, when I was interviewing with Kirkland, right away, they're like, How valuable is this person? We need her on the team other places that we were interviewing with, it felt like I was trying to convince them. And we talk a lot about that, right? With running our businesses, if you have to convince them, we're not in the business of convincing anybody, right? It's like, here's what I provide, here's what I offer. This is the value that I have, right? If you don't see that with your two eyes, I can't convince you of anything, right? So I'm sitting here, I felt like trying to convince these other places of all of the potential that I have. Meanwhile, this other place is like, Oh, we already see it. You don't have to convince like, your brand is loud and clear. And I'm like, wow, okay, I had a conversation with my dad. My dad was like, go where you are celebrated, not where you're tolerated. Don't go to the places where you have to convince folks to see your value. You have to go to the place where they already see it. And it just so happens to be Kirkland, my God, that's

so there are just, there are so many parallels, right? So many parallels in in building a business and working with clients, right? And, and I love that you said, like they said, We know your brand, right? How would they have known your brand if you didn't put your brand out there for the past, what, like, two years, maybe longer, right? Since you started showing up, right? It's like they already knew they that's the power of showing up and talking about what you do, I mean. And I'm all about you know you do what is right for this season of your life, right? And, and I'm just a believer that none of the things that you ever do to build your business will make you less hireable down the road, if that's the season you find yourself in.

Yes, that is right. And

yeah, you had already sold them.

I think I if I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again. I would run my business even, probably even more forcefully. I would run my business with even more confidence. I would run my business like I really believed in myself, right? Because people are watching, they're watching, and what's amazing is they were extremely impressed because I was out here doing. Doing my own thing. It was like, I even had one of the partners I interviewed with a separate partner. She was like, tell me about what was the most challenging thing about landing your clients right? We were talking about business development, and yeah, and you

were like, and you were like, my painkiller statement, yes,

you know what I mean, like this, and I'm not realizing that you are building a complete brand that your reputation, right? Call it reputation if you need to, right? If you're if you're looking to get into a job, your brand is your reputation. It is actually how you're embodying your professional moves right now. And so I just there's so many parallels, like you said, but because I was clear on what I was doing, I handled those conversations in these interviews with such command, with such ease, right? I was like, Oh, I can talk about this all day. Is that what's interesting to you? I thought I needed to tell you how I know how to write a purchase and sale agreement, but they didn't. That wasn't the concern at all. The concern was, like, talk to me about,

Unknown Speaker 51:04

who, like,

Amanda Mocada-Perkins 51:05

how did you do this? Talk to me about, I even got the question, Why? Why would you want to give this up? Which was interesting, which was very interesting, because that's also a challenging right? You, you have to understand, when is it time to pivot and why? Yeah,

yeah, yeah, well, and also, but it does speak to, you know, how much do you disclose, right? Because, like, your business is actually doing really well. It's just, you know, circumstances like hashtag, circumstances are happening. And so I think, you know, it's a fine line, but I, I think it really speaks to, it's so the opposite of what that guy who's, you know, still living rent and free in your head, right? Like nobody leaves. Like, why would you ever leave and and now you have people saying, why would you ever come back? Yeah,

yeah, that's true. I mean, I, I'm excited to, you know, journey through this next area of my life and my professional career, because it's different than what I grew up doing in big law. And like you said, I'm approaching this in a different way, like 25 year old Amanda. 26 year old Amanda, who started out in big law, has nothing on who I am today, like she, she doesn't know. She doesn't know. It's fine. We're gonna do so much better now,

that conversation is so good, and if anything Amanda said spoke to you, please reach out to her on LinkedIn and let her know, and thank her. And of course, we'll be cheering her on from here. So at the end of each episode, I usually pull out one lesson that you can apply to your business, and honestly, in this one, I feel like there's no way I can pull out just one. In fact, I actually had somebody listen to an early version of this, and she said she needed to go back and listen to it again just to get everything that there was to get from it. So if that's you and you need to listen to it again, of course, I invite you to do that, but here's one thing I want to take away from it, Amanda was able to do what she did in her business, and when she needed to pivot, she had that option because she was in the driver's seat. She didn't just, you know, allow herself to be carried along in her business, hoping it would work, or hoping that things continue at a pretty good pace. When it came to building her business, she grabbed the keys and got in the car and put her foot on the gas and drove. And when I say she put her foot on the gas and drove, it's not about how hard she hustled or how fast she went or how fast she wanted to build her business. It's about the intentionality of it. She was in the driver's seat. This is something we talk about every month as part of our momentum sessions in the academy, where we stop and reflect and answer the question, What role have you been playing in your business? Have you been luggage, you know, just being carried along. Are you in the back seat? Are you the passenger, or have you been the driver? Because what I see is that so many women consultants out there are allowing themselves to be sort of carried along in the business. And when you're carried along by what I don't know, who knows where you'll end up, and a lot of times they look around a few years later and they don't know how they ended up there. I mean, listen, we never know what's gonna happen in our lives, but when you're in the driver's seat of your business, then whatever happens, you'll be able to shift or pivot as you need to, because you've been doing the right things on purpose, with intention all along. And you'll be able to make the choice that's right for you and take the step is right for you, and you'll be stronger when you do you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai