Attracting clients who respect your expertise

Speaker 1 0:00

It's so funny because, I mean, I've heard this, like who you're supposed to write to, or that you write to the perfect person or the ideal client. I mean, I've read all the books on it. And this has been more impactful than, I don't know, I have a bookcase full of

Leah Neaderthal 0:22

Welcome to this smart gets paid podcast with me, Leah Neaderthal. I help women land higher paying clients in their independent consulting businesses. But I've never been a salesperson. My background is in corporate marketing. And when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about 1000 times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it. And I created the sales approach that I now share with my clients. So they can feel more comfortable in the sales process, get more of the right clients, and get paid way more for every client contract. So whether your client contracts are $5,000 $100,000 or more, if you want to work with more of the clients who love do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever thought you could, then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Thanks for tuning in. And don't forget to rate review and share.

Hey there, Leah here, and thanks for tuning in. I hope that wherever you're listening to this, wherever you are right now, you're having a great week making some good progress in your business and taking some time for you. So not too long ago, a client came into the academy community and share it in Slack that she had to fire a client. And she explained that things actually started out fine with this client. But over time, her main contact just became this terrible micromanager. And really, they weren't treating my client, this woman who's you know, writing this, they weren't treating her with respect and respecting her expertise or her work. I mean, as she was describing it, it basically became like this toxic situation. And so despite, you know, my client trying to make it work, in the end, she decided that it just wasn't worth it. So she let them go. And in the wake of that she's wondering, how did that happen? Like, did I do something to make that happen? And more importantly, how do I make sure that doesn't happen again? I mean, it's like dating, right? Like, Have you ever dated someone who at the beginning, it was great. But over time, it just became sort of toxic? I know I have. And afterwards, you know, with some distance, you're like, how did I get myself into that situation? And how do I not get into that situation again? So that's where she is from a business sense. And that's the moment she's in. That's the headspace she's in when we have the conversation that you're going to hear in this episode. She had just let this client go, I think a few days ago. And so the question she's wondering about is, how do I get clients that respect me and my work. And what you'll discover is that it's both an art and a science. Because working with clients who respect you is about finding the clients who are the best fit for you. And then creating space for them to truly realize the value you provide. So if you've ever found yourself working with a client who wasn't an awesome fit, or who you felt like didn't totally respect you, or you had to sort of keep trying to convince them that you are doing great work. I know you're gonna find some helpful nuggets in this episode. So one thing to know about this client that you're going to hear me talk to is that, you know, without getting too specific, she's in marketing. So I want to send a huge thank you to my client for allowing me to share this conversation with you. Take a listen. And at the end, I'll come back and share a lesson that you can apply to your business.

Let's start with the first thing first, what's on your plate? What's on your mind anything on the scale of on the one hand, it's something I've just been noodling on, just been toying with and on the other. It's something I've really been struggling with. So anywhere along that continuum, okay.

Speaker 1 4:04

It's very timely, as well, because I just lost a client, which was actually a good, it's a good thing. And now I was at a good thing. That's the one is that the one you posted in Slack? Yeah, I don't do well, under situations where I'm being micromanaged. It just doesn't, it doesn't work for me. I don't like it when people call my trust out in question. And I'm like, bless and release. Good. Good. Yeah. Yeah, so that's, that was really good. I mean, obviously, I'm in a better place today than I was when it happened is, you know, claims are great until they're not. So this is one of those ones where it was a learning lesson. So like I was thinking about, I've been noodling on this for a while because I haven't been in marketing for a long time and doing what I do for can be coming up here five years, which is great. That I feel like a lot of the times I'm just not targeting people who really appreciate me and what I'm do Doing a lot of it is I love to nurtured and very maternal in certain ways. And I'm like, Oh, you're broken. Perfect, I'll fix you. And I try really hard not to do that anymore. But I assumed still would I go to. So I ended up with people who are just like egomaniacs and things. So I need to figure out a ideal client who's, you know, loves what I do. But I also feel very comfortable running their businesses there. I do a lot of really cool things that most don't do. And so trying to hone on hone in on that, like I do a really robust audit in the beginning. So like, the numbers are really important for me, and then building out a strategy. But I don't want to get pulled into the day to day stuff. I want to be there to like, really shift that. So it's a good moment. Anytime we have something that goes sideways, I always think it's a really good opportunity for me to take a look at what's happening, and then figure out, like, Where can I pivot to make this to serve me and what I want better?

Leah Neaderthal 6:03

Yeah, I love the perspective of using this as what can we learn from this? It sounds like there was a little bit of like sadness, or anger or whatever. But that seems to be in the past or past couple days, because it was just not. This was not a good. It turned into not a good situation. Yeah, yeah. So obviously,

Speaker 1 6:19

I'm human, too. I have big emotions, I try to process them in a way that's good and whatever. But I'm subject to that too. And I'm doing really much better with it today, it's I still, it still plays out in my head, which is what we do, and so recording it in the right place, so that I can then take it and learn from it and move on to the next thing. And then the healthy things that you do with those things.

Leah Neaderthal 6:40

Yeah, absolutely. For healthy and well adjusted people. Alright, so this ideal client who loves what I do, or Yeah, who talks about loves what I do, how would you know, if they loved what you do?

Speaker 1 6:55

I think it's, my love language is typically time spent. But I'll take words of affirmation with actions that back it up. They just can't, can't was very excited about what I'm bringing to the table, I turn over every rock in the business and help orchestrate the tool of change. Right? So there's going to be things that change and people always say, Oh, I love change. It's amazing. It's exactly what I need to do in order to grow. And then I tell them what they have to do to change. And they're like, oh, shit,

Leah Neaderthal 7:23

that's all. It's like, I want to change. Okay, change. No, not like that. Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1 7:29

So then there's a little bit of like, mind finesse that we have to do to embrace change. Because as you know, and I know that if you're going to build a business, you can't run with the same, like, you can't grow doing the same stuff you've been doing.

Leah Neaderthal 7:43

Yeah, so words of app. So like, you will know that they value what you do, because they are telling you that what you're doing is good. Yeah. How else are

Speaker 1 7:52

taking actions that say yes, we've, you know, you said we needed to have a social media manager who's dedicated, we've, you know, we love that idea. You know, we can talk have conversations over what that looks like, as far as budgeting, here's your budget. So like, we went from, here's a concept to digesting the concept to taking action. Those are the three steps that mean, I trust you, I believe in you, I think that this is the right movement forward. And then we do it. And then they have patience with the fact that that change has to happen in person gets trained, and all the rest of that. So, again, tricky,

Leah Neaderthal 8:30

right? Yeah. And I mean, one question I have is like, the things that you tell them to do, or and you create the conditions, to what degree are you creating the conditions where they can actually do it? Like, I'm thinking about hiring a social media manager, this part of your work also includes Okay, here's the job wreck that we can start with, here's where you should post it. Here's how we're going to vet the candidates. I'm okay, you're nodding, right. So this all includes that. Okay.

Speaker 1 8:57

Yeah, it's the budget. It's like, here's some top three candidates, I think would be really good for this. If we want to go externally to like outside of my resources. Let's talk about what that looks like. So there's a little bit of a buy into, we need to have this conversation. Let's do it. And then there's money that's allocated that we can go do that for or do that. I guess I should say. Yeah.

Leah Neaderthal 9:18

And okay, I'm just gonna ask me a bunch of questions success out. And then let's talk about these like broken clients. Where you your innate sense of wanting to help people and fix people. Do you find that you're wanting to do that? Maybe you're attracting, like, you're like you're attracting bad boyfriends or something? Totally. Yeah. Tell me more about that.

Speaker 1 9:40

So I was in tech for a long time. And then I worked for there's a lot of there's a lot of toxicity in that one. So I came off of that. And then I swung to the other side, which is masterminds and I there's there's just a lot of different kinds of different flavor of toxic city that's involved in that with the egos and whatever that I encountered. And I think there's just

Leah Neaderthal 10:05

you're saying, like the ego is in, like the coaching masterminds or? Yeah,

Speaker 1 10:09

it's I think, in some cases, right, so I found myself like in the heartland center of bro marketing, and I'm not, I'm just saying I didn't really vet this out well enough. And you don't know until you're like, oh, never date that bad boy again, right? You're like, it was awesome. And it's so cool. And then their name is everywhere. And then I was like, Oh, man. Yep. This is when things go right. And I'm getting called on every holiday and weekend, dad, they're like, look, I don't my contract. And I always follow up my contract, once you sign a contract with this is how I like to work. It's an email that they read over. And it talks about communication styles, when I'm available, what I will and will not be doing what's in my contract versus what's not in my contract. And all of that is from have boundaries, because we didn't have boundaries. Yes, I'm trying to learn that better. But what I realized is a lot of that was ignored in those specific instances. And maybe it's maybe the through line here is it's me. I'm the person who's making the decisions to work with folks that are probably not the best bet. So I tried to think about that and figure out where I need to go. But I've had a slew of clients that I've not loved. Although I do love what I do. So it's a tricky place to be in.

Leah Neaderthal 11:24

And I think it's the mark of a high achiever to be like, it must be my fault. Right? You don't know if that's like hitting you? I think

Speaker 1 11:35

it's because we it's a mark of a control freak. And I'm fully aware that's the case, because I teach that to other people do when I like, look, you're only saying that because you can only control what you can control. And it feels more comfortable to own it than it does to be able to say I had no control. So there's action I can take. And versus I couldn't have done anything about it, which doesn't feel good. And I don't sit in limbo very well, which is very true. Okay,

Leah Neaderthal 12:03

all right. These are all good things to know. And so I guess just going back to that, it doesn't have to be your faults, especially this last one, like how would you have known? I mean, this is a total head fake? And how long do real quick like how long do you work with clients a fairly long time, right?

Speaker 1 12:18

It usually is between six months and a year, six months is right little point where we start to see progress, especially because they're generally b2b. So I'm like, Look, we got to define all the things and then find the people and make the traction happen. So at six months, past six months, is where you really start to see tremendous growth efforts that we're doing. Right? Okay.

Leah Neaderthal 12:40

So, six months is like, basically day zero, right? That's when you start to see growth. And then you might stay with them for a year, perhaps longer. That's a long time for them to have to show you that they like what you do, and they that you're an expert. And so I'm thinking about it. There's something like dating metaphors or relationship metaphors and selling, but it's like, they have to you have to be the best boyfriend for like, a whole year. Yeah. And so part of that is like, they're not going to be the best boyfriend for a whole year. No, first, you know, this, it's impossible, because you're not going to be the best girlfriend. Or you're just not gonna be the best partner with us. You know? Yeah. You can't Yeah, we'll go there. Yeah, so you can't be the best partner for a year there are going to be ups and downs. Yeah. And so one thing I would just note noting is like, out to you. Because when you say like, how will I know, they'll be on board, they'll be bought in and they'll do the things, they'll tell me that they appreciate me work. You're sort of putting like, the is this working? Is this relationship working, you know, air quotes on, it's all in their court for them to tell you that it's working. And I wonder, curious if we can weave in more ways, like more venues for them to give you positive reinforcement. I like that. And I like to, and this is just me and my own way I work and what I need to like, optimize for positive feedback to say think like, and again, like this would be very specific to your work. But just these are just a couple of things that come to mind. So one of my favorite questions is, as I'm talking through maybe how something works or whatever, questions like, what's the most valuable part of this for you? And thinking like, how do you think this will help the most? And I'm talking, I'm just thinking about ways that we can sprinkle these in. And I'm sure there are other things that we can come up with for your work, but essentially, don't be so good at doing the work. And so how heads down without doing the work that you don't, I want you to create more spaces for them to give you to talk about the work and talk about you in it. Does that make sense? Yeah. You're not supposed to say that. I know you're right. I know. This is like a huge conversation and let me rephrase what's a better way for me to say that? How does that sit with you?

Speaker 1 15:06

I like it. And I like it because I think we were trained to be good little soldiers and to like, and it's such a funny thing, because this is just a symptom of the bigger picture of how we're told to work really hard and work. Like the harder you work the, the better the payoff will be. And it's not true. Oh, harder you work, the better the payoff will be. And so this is a good symptom of that that's like, next level, because the first thing is, don't just put your head down and work, look up and look around. And then the next level of that is make time for somebody to give you feedback, because it's a relationship. And that's a good dialogue. Like that point.

Leah Neaderthal 15:46

Yeah, when I think the whole like good little soldiers, good girls thing. That you're right, it doesn't work. It works maybe a little bit when you are early in your career. It works not at all, when you are senior in your career. Nobody just gives you great feedback and wants to promote you. Because whatever. And it works terribly. When you're running your own business, and you are your own boss, there's like nobody to like, tap you on the shoulder and be like, Hey, that was really great. I love how you did that. Me. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 16:19

he was having a conversation with pleasing, just wanted you to know. Yeah.

Leah Neaderthal 16:25

And so I wonder if creating space for you to get what you need, which is data, right? It's not like, you know, let's stroke my ego. This is also data, that means that tells me that that would tell you, what things are they sparking to maybe what are they not sparking to? What's the most valuable part of this for you might open up, okay, actually, this is going to benefit a whole other part of this that you might have not have access to because it's a different part of the business, get what I'm saying. And so, if you see it, if you see it as data, but also data get that gives you a little bit of what you need, so that you can stay in the relationship. And it's not all on them to keep you there.

Unknown Speaker 17:04

Yes, yes, I love it.

Leah Neaderthal 17:08

Okay, so there's like a little therapy in, in selling,

Speaker 1 17:11

there's a lot of therapy. And so like, there's a lot of I know, I say that, but I like there's a lot of therapy.

Leah Neaderthal 17:17

Alright, so that's one thing, optimizing for positive feedback. But let's talk about could you have noticed, and avoided all these things in the past, you know, these clients who like turn into not great clients? I mean, no, I don't I really don't think so. But I do want to talk about what might be some markers of a good client, and what are the markers of a bad client, because we can talk about and we will go through more of this, like in the building block stuff, but it's good to talk about here. We can talk about ideal client, right, you know, certain industry size, whatever. But what's more important, in my view is like, what are the markers? What are the things that you are looking for? And those come out in conversations, sales, conversations, discovery, you know, I had a woman who I worked with who she's a very high level copywriter for insurance, businesses. And she, we were talking about this, and she said, the best clients for me, I can't be successful if the agency head is also has given themselves the job of marketing, because they don't have a team. So I'm like writing all this great stuff. And giving it to them and telling them how to use it and telling them where to post it and whatever. And they just, they're too busy or what have you. And so we identified like, okay, a marker for her is they have to have like, at least two people who are tasked with marketing who are not the agency owner. Yeah. So that's the kind of stuff that you can listen for again. But for you, what would the markers be? How would you know? How would you know if you saw it?

Speaker 1 18:57

So I love the question. I'm gonna go through it with the process of elimination, just because that's how my brain works. So I know I don't love it when they have, like, two, VA is out of the Philippines who are working part time. It's just too hard to do. I need layers so that I can have people do certain things. So I think the first one is, do they have a team? How many people are on the team? Three minimally? Because two is the answer probably overworked and they're going to be overworked very soon. Usually the the pivotal role that I know that they're ready for the next step is do you have a project manager? So that's a good one for me. Is that that the

Leah Neaderthal 19:35

project manager is one of those three people or they have another project manager who can be tapped with this

Speaker 1 19:41

great question on top of or they're willing to hire for that role, because that's pretty, pretty important. I think another good one is that they're looking to potentially hire a CRO so somebody who's optimizing for conversion. So that's really important for me this I don't I'm not. I really like it, you know, trickle down to the bottom line, I am I have budget is at the end of the day, I can't do anything, any budget. And if it's just like, like, I have a gentleman who wants to talk to me tomorrow about writing him a just a strategy, which is fine. And he's like, I only have $15,000. And I was like, Okay, great. That's awesome. And I can give you a strategy for that. But I hope that you're gonna get seed funding or get funding in some regards. You're going to have some money friend. Having those I'm there to have those real conversations. But I need to make sure that they're like, they're prepared for what's going to come next. Because in marketing, if you build it, they don't come.

Leah Neaderthal 20:46

Yeah, this is okay. So you said a few things I just want to pull out if one of the markers is that they have three people minimum, and then a project manager. Earlier, you said I don't want to get pulled into the database stuff, which sounds like tends to happen, or at some point. Do you see how like, if you, if you really start talking to talking to in marketing terms, clients, and vet for clients who have those two things in place, do you see how that will keep you from getting sucked into day to day because nobody else is doing the day to day? And it's not an it's not like the admin around the world?

Speaker 1 21:24

Yes, yes. But and then and that's, and I don't want to target people who are in the Philippines. I just, it just seems to come up very frequently. But yeah, you're right. There's the head, and there's a hands, I'm going to be the head, they're gonna be the hands. So like that, that definitely needs to be a marker. Yeah.

Leah Neaderthal 21:41

What, how much budget? Do you think in an ideal world? How much budget would be the minimum that they've allocated? for marketing?

Speaker 1 21:50

I usually say it has to be at minimum 3x. What I charge, right. So on a quarterly basis 3x That way I

Leah Neaderthal 21:58

can do things with this is money that we have to spend on like, ads or technology or no technology with fondo operating expenses. But yeah,

Speaker 1 22:06

that's that's a different wheelhouse. And it depends on what they're doing. But yeah, I usually say three expert on tech. And then for tech, it's probably half a million to at least a million. And that's, that's a big chunk.

Leah Neaderthal 22:17

It is a big chunk. But if you're only talking to people who have that chunk, then you can actually do the work that you want to be doing. Right. What else?

Speaker 1 22:29

I think just, I think that's the major one, because it's the step one, like I feel like I'm back to step one, which is, it's kind of nice, and also kind of like frustrating at the same time, because I have to determine who I'm going to go after. And once I go after them, then I can cultivate my content and go from there and write all the things right. So right now I'm trying to write my LinkedIn posts and keep my content up before I know who my person is. And I just I know,

Leah Neaderthal 22:55

I know it well. And that's why honestly, I mean, that's why because what happens a lot is, people were coming in and wanting to put out the fires, like, I need to do LinkedIn. But we had not answered some of these key questions. So then it's the same dilemma that you're facing. Now. Who am I talking to? Yeah.

Speaker 1 23:15

Have you been everywhere. So at least it's good. Like, I have a friend who's she is for outdoor travel companies. And her team is very specific, and her website is gorgeous. And like she did such a tremendous job with it. And mine is much more generalized. You can see immediately who she is, and it's not for and I'm

Leah Neaderthal 23:37

not. Yeah, she does what we call client signaling. This is a whole strategy that we have here in this program, client signaling, it's, and the whole idea is like it's whispers not shouts. And so that's why these markers are important. So what would it look like if you started going after, you know, signaling clients that had a team that had budgeted either anywhere from 3x to $500 million, right, that had a project manager? I think it would not be that difficult to start to signal these people because you actually do know them, like you do know the challenges they're facing. I

Speaker 1 24:19

think it's the matter of getting it out of my head. Cuz I think I do, like I knew when I talked to somebody, and I'm like, okay, but when I sit down and I start writing things, I'm like, it's tough.

Leah Neaderthal 24:32

I wonder how much of this is also you're a marketer. And it's easy to mark it for other people. But is it hard for to do this for yourself? I don't know. Is there any part of that here? Always,

Speaker 1 24:43

I mean, it's 100% more difficult to market your own business than it is.

Leah Neaderthal 24:49

Yeah, I know. I'm going to your website right now. Okay, so here, we started to look over her website copy, and specifically the main headline, which started with the words I help six, seven and eight figure entrepreneurs, you know that that right? And then it continues but pay attention to that six, seven and eight figure entrepreneurs part. Okay, let's get back to it. So through the lens of what we've just talked about, is somebody making six figures fit your target? No. Just somebody making me curious, is somebody making the low sevens that your target? No,

Speaker 1 25:25

I mean, it really eight, it's really. So

Leah Neaderthal 25:28

that's one really simple fix that instantly if I come to this, I look around, I see eight figures or, you know, whoever else we want, maybe you want to change this text. And I am a I mean, you know, making $2 million. And my budget for marketing is like, I don't know, $10,000 a month, I'm gonna know that you're not for me. Right? It's been a while and your art? Who's the you here? who hires you?

Speaker 1 25:55

Usually it's a CEO, or sometimes on a rare occasion, it's the CEO.

Leah Neaderthal 26:00

Okay, I want to offer something like a just a prompt that might help here. And it's this idea of, you've gotten to this point. And in what, let's fill in the blank, you've the CEO, she has gotten to this point, he has gotten to this point. And what did he assume? Or what did she assume would happen here? Because really, the the job here is not to talk about what you do, or whatever, it's to really welcome them in. I understand, I get it, I know the moment that you're in right now. Here's how I help. And that moment that you're in is, I think, what's missing through, you know, a lot of people's websites and messaging and LinkedIn or whatever. And also here, yeah, that's how you signal. That's how you signal these people, in the moment that they are. So it's signaling that type of business for you. It's also signaling the moment. Yeah, the exercise that we just went through about the markers, if you start to write with those in mind, and give yourself permission to write to a person. That's how you can do this for yourself.

Speaker 1 27:16

That's awesome. That's so funny, because I mean, I've heard this, like who you're supposed to write to, that you write to the perfect person, or the ideal client. I mean, I've read all the books on it. And this has been more impactful than, I don't know, I have a bookcase full of. So thank you.

Leah Neaderthal 27:38

You are so welcome. I'm really glad this has been helpful. And I think it's just, you know, everybody you work with has done so much learning. And I think reading a book and struggling with it on your own is one thing, but really getting into the weeds and like, Okay, this is how we do it. This is the strategy. Yeah. Is it just unlock something?

Speaker 1 28:00

Get does. That does? I think it's an aha moment. It's the actually do you know who I'm talking to, but I need to talk to them more directly. And in their language, which I know, it's so weird. We hear it so many times, but I never really like clicked for me. It clicked for me, because I've heard this. I know it. Like I can teach it back to you. Right. But I hadn't thought about it in terms of markers and how that works on websites.

Leah Neaderthal 28:34

Yeah, good. I'm so glad I can see the wheels turning for who? All right. So there's so much to unpack here. You know, we got a little bit of therapy, we got some ideal client stuff, we got a little art a little science. And I want to pull out one lesson that you can apply to your business. And it's this question of markers. What are the markers of the best clients for you? This question is part of the system that we use to identify your best future clients. And it's such a helpful thought starter that I wanted to share a bit more about it here because it's a really different way of finding your ideal client. Because you know, I have women who come to me and they've like done the whole ideal client thing. And they've tried it and they've worked through it. And it either didn't work out or just sent them in the same spiral they've been in before. And that's because a lot of the ideal client stuff out there is actually pretty boring and unimaginative. And it's not all that helpful. And so when people think about how to attract clients that respect you, what they assume you have to do is flaunt your expertise. They'll say like, I have 25 years in, you know, whatever industry right? Or they'll lean on their credentials. Like you'll see this on LinkedIn a lot like X, Google X, Facebook, Harvard MBA X, McKinsey, whatever. But that doesn't actually attract the clients who actually respect to you. So we approach it a different way. And this is one step in that system, the markers of the best clients for you. Because it's actually really hard to just come up with your ideal client. But we've all seen an ideal client. We've all worked with one, hopefully, several. And when the right client comes into your orbit, you know it when you see it. So we try to figure out, if you quote unquote, know it, when you see it, then what is it that you're seeing? Like, what would tell you what would you want to see, to know that this is a great client for you, those are the markers of the best clients for you. So we figure out the best clients for you. And then we develop an authentic marketing strategy to reach those clients. And then we give you a sales toolkit to help you lead a sale and actually close those clients. But it all starts with who are the best clients for you. And I'm saying best clients here instead of ideal clients, because the best clients are the ones you can be the most successful with. And they're the ones who can be most successful with the services you're providing. Because the first step to being respected for the value you deliver, is working with clients who can truly realize that value. Because if you've ever worked with clients who like didn't totally understand the outcomes that you were going to help them achieve, or maybe who, you know, couldn't implement the strategies, or who weren't willing to invest the money or the time to reach those outcomes that they themselves said they needed. And that's the reason they hired you. You know how frustrating that is. And if they're not in the best position to see the value that you can help them reach, then they're not going to receive or experience that value. And they're certainly not going to say that you help them achieve that value. I talked to one of my clients about this in a previous episode, it's Episode 57, about how she and her co founder had this big agency experience. And as they were working together in their business, they were working with these like small businesses and nonprofits, and they just felt like they were giving them too much and really overwhelming the client. And the client then couldn't really take what they had done together and run with it and be successful with it. And she said, I just feel like I'm giving them a racehorse when what they need is a mule. So check out that episode, Episode 57. And you can hear how we adjusted what she offered to really meet her clients where they are. But the point here is that oftentimes we're working with clients who aren't really the best position to be successful with all the goodness that we can bring them. And if that's the case, then they're not going to value our work as much as somebody who are a client who could truly be as successful as they can possibly be with what we provide. Now listen, I will say to any of my clients, you can take on any client at any time for any reason. Sometimes you take on clients because it seemed interesting and you want to stretch yourself a bit. Sometimes you take on clients because you need the work. No one's going to shame you or whatever for taking on a client. That's not the absolute best client. I'm certainly not. The goal is that over time you increase the percentage of the best clients for you. So when you work with clients who can be the most successful with what you're offering, and the ones that you can be the most successful with. And when they experienced the value, they won't question the value and they won't question your expertise.

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